Just curious what you all think.
- Thread starter fuel664
- Start date
- Status
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
There was very recently another instance of a police officer shooting a young man who was holding a hyper-real airsoft replica.
This goes somewhat the other way, but still is blurring the line between toy and weapon. Please be exceedingly careful -- today, and FOREVER -- with that gun, where it goes, and who's hands are holding it.
The only other thing I'd point out is that you REALLLLLY aught to ensure that the serial number on the receiver is not covered up. Most of those dress-up kits (in my experience) leave a cutout or are designed so that the original manufacturer's serial number is plainly visible.
If you cover it up, especially if you glue something over it or otherwise semi-permanently obscure it, you could be thought to have "defaced or obliterated" that serial number and that's a VERY serious crime.
USAF_Vet
Member
Aside from serial number considerations Sam mentioned, its no different than many other cosmetic stocks people create for other rifles. Buff off the Nerf logo, make sure the S/N stays visible. It still looks like a rifle and still meets all other legal requirements and definitions of a rifle.
The guy who says its a concealed weapon is posting from California, so there needs to be a large salt block taken there. In CA, it probably is illegal. In Alaska, and other free states, its nothing other than a cosmetic alteration.
I think we've got some old nerf guns laying around since my step son got into air soft. Might make for a fun project for my otherwise boring looking Savage.
The guy who says its a concealed weapon is posting from California, so there needs to be a large salt block taken there. In CA, it probably is illegal. In Alaska, and other free states, its nothing other than a cosmetic alteration.
I think we've got some old nerf guns laying around since my step son got into air soft. Might make for a fun project for my otherwise boring looking Savage.
wow, tell us how you really feel fatdave. but i guess its basically like those dress up kits. and ther is no way this can be mistaken for a fake gun. its x10 heavier than nerf and its all black/silver. but sadly i had to do some running around today so probably no range time today. bought this gun with.intent on only plinking. my savage mark ii will outshoot the 795 any day of the week, and a 30-06 for hunting. and i did all this just to make it cool or more fun i suppose. and i HAVE NOT modded the rifle so i can pull it out and put it back into the original stock when ever i want.but who wouldn't want a 22lr nerf gun lol
bigfatdave
Member
Hey, I didn't mean to offend, fuel664 - I was just commenting honestly.
I was trying to point out that while I'm not a fan of the exact "look" you've bolted onto that gun, I enjoy the basic concept. Why not make a range toy into something that makes you smile?
And a 795, stripped of all parts not required to function is pretty small, I think you chose the right gun for the job, you can squeeze that into a LOT of shells that wouldn't take a larger action - the only way to go more compact would be to use a takedown.
I was trying to point out that while I'm not a fan of the exact "look" you've bolted onto that gun, I enjoy the basic concept. Why not make a range toy into something that makes you smile?
And a 795, stripped of all parts not required to function is pretty small, I think you chose the right gun for the job, you can squeeze that into a LOT of shells that wouldn't take a larger action - the only way to go more compact would be to use a takedown.
Officers'Wife
Member
cute, but I think you have waaaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands.
KingMedicine
Member
Even if it's legal to do so, this is a terrible idea.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
While I'm all for dressing up one's guns as one sees fit, I have my own limitations.
Note that these are MY limitations and I fully understand that others may have opinions which differ.
Guns are not toys. All jesting aside about "man-toys" and such, these AREN'T toys in the classical children's sense. And I will not dress up or decorate any of my firearms in such a fashion that they may be misconstrued as a kid's toy.
Taking apart a kid's toy and literally installing a firearm inside it definately crosses the line for me.
We can all argue this one way or another for a variety of reasons, and quite honestly I can see this going either way as a result, depending on the presentation one makes.
However, for any given incident, Pandora's Box has a specific set of conditions which open the combination lock to a given tragedy. Assessing the risks of our everyday actions is how we each control whether or not Pandora's Box is opened.
Making a real gun look like a toy gun by literally encasing it INSIDE a toy gun is setting the first number to that combination. Be darned sure you control the circumstances for evey other number to that combination.
SIDE NOTE:
I recently had a discussion with a local gunsmith about customizing firearms. This particular gunsmith and wife have their own policy in which they reserve the right to refuse to customize a firearm in such a manner as to come across as a toy. Given the increasing types of customizations people are going for nowadays, I thought this was an interesting policy of theirs.
Note that these are MY limitations and I fully understand that others may have opinions which differ.
Guns are not toys. All jesting aside about "man-toys" and such, these AREN'T toys in the classical children's sense. And I will not dress up or decorate any of my firearms in such a fashion that they may be misconstrued as a kid's toy.
Taking apart a kid's toy and literally installing a firearm inside it definately crosses the line for me.
We can all argue this one way or another for a variety of reasons, and quite honestly I can see this going either way as a result, depending on the presentation one makes.
However, for any given incident, Pandora's Box has a specific set of conditions which open the combination lock to a given tragedy. Assessing the risks of our everyday actions is how we each control whether or not Pandora's Box is opened.
Making a real gun look like a toy gun by literally encasing it INSIDE a toy gun is setting the first number to that combination. Be darned sure you control the circumstances for evey other number to that combination.
SIDE NOTE:
I recently had a discussion with a local gunsmith about customizing firearms. This particular gunsmith and wife have their own policy in which they reserve the right to refuse to customize a firearm in such a manner as to come across as a toy. Given the increasing types of customizations people are going for nowadays, I thought this was an interesting policy of theirs.
jerkface11
Member
With the paint job he wants it doesn't look like a toy. Some of you need to relax.
ok some people seem to forget the paint job...and yes i was hoping the nerf emblem would "blend in" so to speak, after paint. but looks like im gonna have to file it off. :banghead: still have blisters from using that antique splintering wooden handle metal file. but here are some mock up pics. the silver paint is under the black, same with abit of the gold and red. going to sand off the black to give it more of a realistic metal look. but waiting for the paint to fully harden.
that is not put together its more just laying in place so the parts are not aligned but just to give you an idea.
and i also believe its a horrible idea to put a real fire arm inside a toy gun, without changing the toy somehow (like if i didn't paint it). but i know who is going to use this gun and when they are going to use it. like any of my guns, i don't just let my daughter run around the house with them. the only time this would be in the open and unattended is when it is FULLY disassembled for cleaning or repairs
that is not put together its more just laying in place so the parts are not aligned but just to give you an idea.
and i also believe its a horrible idea to put a real fire arm inside a toy gun, without changing the toy somehow (like if i didn't paint it). but i know who is going to use this gun and when they are going to use it. like any of my guns, i don't just let my daughter run around the house with them. the only time this would be in the open and unattended is when it is FULLY disassembled for cleaning or repairs
Field Tester
Member
Looks legit to me. As mentioned before, as long as OAL is met and serial numbers show then you're fine. I've seen this done with 10/22s into a bullpup. Happens every so often over at RFC. As long as a person isn't attempting to make it look like a toy, then I encourage it. We need fresh ideas and innovators like the OP.
I don't understand why everyone is up in arms. Finished product will look like a firearm. Heck, there's a candy colored toy looking 10/22 on Ruger's page for their contest.
I can't stand the posters who are saying this is illegal or concealed. You need to stop pretending to know the law and actually read it. That or because it doesn't fit your idea of something you like, you straight out lie. Knock it off.
More power to you OP! I look forward to a finished product.
I don't understand why everyone is up in arms. Finished product will look like a firearm. Heck, there's a candy colored toy looking 10/22 on Ruger's page for their contest.
I can't stand the posters who are saying this is illegal or concealed. You need to stop pretending to know the law and actually read it. That or because it doesn't fit your idea of something you like, you straight out lie. Knock it off.
More power to you OP! I look forward to a finished product.
yup, OAL for the nerf was 26", -1.5" for the orange tip i took off. the barrel wouldn't fit with it on. but +8" or so for barrel sticking out the front and its the original 18" barrel. and i didnt realize it but there is an accesses panel that pops up on the top above the ejection port that you can look into and the serial is visible. its a bit offset but its all good.
bigfatdave
Member
That's why I'd use the excess levers and gears for mag changing and/or stock adjustments.
I'm going to talk to a woodworking guy I know about doing some silly steampunk stuff to a spare 10/22 stock I have laying around, I can add brass fittings here and there and some kind of ridiculous muzzle fitting, and maybe dress up a cheap red-dot with copper sheet and rivets?
===
1 - it looks pretty legit to me after the painting
2 - maybe fill in around the Nerf logo or use a planer to take it off?
===
Random thought - is that a safety lever for the original Nerf gun on the side? I'm all for the modification ideas, but I would NOT have a gun with a safety device that didn't work. For instance, when I remove a loaded chamber indicator from a gun, I just leave the slot empty, or if I disabled an existing safety lever, I'd leave a hole in the frame before I left a lever that appeared to be a working safety in place.
sadly that was a drunken mistake. that safety lever is just a design molded into the original nerf. just waiting for paint then drilling holes in the side and using silicone to attach two small wooden pegs onto the safety for both sides, so that its still usable. the silicon will make a good connection yet should rip off cleanly if i want to remove it later.
That is incorrect.
It is different in one very important way.
The cosmetic stocks and the other "conversions" described make a working firearm look like another firearm. They do not make a working firearm look like a toy which is what this modification does.
From a legal standpoint, making a working firearm look like something other than a firearm may not be a problem--I don't know enough about the NFA and how the BATF currently interprets and enforces it to do anything other than speculate.
From a practical standpoint, making a firearm look like a toy (or vice-versa) raises some legitimate concerns which are underscored by a recent lethal incident in the news.
Last edited:
very good point, but do you consider pink handguns and Hello Kitty ARs to fall into the same category?
Taurus offers this straight from the factory and it looks pretty "nerf" to me
I used to say "to each his own" when I saw guns like this and pink revolvers, but you bring up some good points and I not question if it is a good idea to by these type of guns
bigfatdave
Member
On the subject of "toy guns vs real guns"
In my household, toys (airsoft, mostly) are all clear plastic. I suppose the rubber band guns are solid wood, but they're not realistic like the airsoft trainers.
If I wanted a trainer gun and couldn't find a reasonable one in clear plastic, I'd spray it orange or some other "non-gun" color, or add airsoft stickers.
The OP, fuel664, isn't making a real gun look like a toy, any more than the Taurus TennJedd posted, or the 'rasberry' pistols Ruger sells "look like a toy".
In fact, it just looks like an oddball rifle after the beginning of painting:
Once that Nerf logo is gone, it won't look any more "toy like" than many custom AR setups.
I'm curious about how the ergonomics work out on it, at this point.
In my household, toys (airsoft, mostly) are all clear plastic. I suppose the rubber band guns are solid wood, but they're not realistic like the airsoft trainers.
If I wanted a trainer gun and couldn't find a reasonable one in clear plastic, I'd spray it orange or some other "non-gun" color, or add airsoft stickers.
The OP, fuel664, isn't making a real gun look like a toy, any more than the Taurus TennJedd posted, or the 'rasberry' pistols Ruger sells "look like a toy".
In fact, it just looks like an oddball rifle after the beginning of painting:
Once that Nerf logo is gone, it won't look any more "toy like" than many custom AR setups.
I'm curious about how the ergonomics work out on it, at this point.
and the main reason i posted this thread. i could see someone screaming about guns looking like toys being super evil, and now i must be some sort of terrorist.
(once the logo is gone) you would never guess it was a toy, unless your some kind of nerf guru. and it defiantly looks like a custom made gun. but so far only issue is mag release. it works but its kind of awkward. still waiting on 25 round mag pro in the mail.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
In many cases, I do believe this.
However, I'll give the OP kudos for understanding this and taking precautions with respect to his modifications:
"and i also believe its a horrible idea to put a real fire arm inside a toy gun, without changing the toy somehow (like if i didn't paint it). but i know who is going to use this gun and when they are going to use it. like any of my guns, i don't just let my daughter run around the house with them. the only time this would be in the open and unattended is when it is FULLY disassembled for cleaning or repairs"
When all is said and done, however, the bottom line is that this is a real firearm and all the appropriate precautions associated with that must be taken. So long as the OP does this, fine.
BobTheTomato
Member
Looks like a real gun to me. You might try automotive body puddy to fill in or over the nerf logo.
newfalguy101
Member
covering the serial number, is an issue, figure out a way to uncover that, or ask ATF for permission to re-locate it to the new chassis
45_auto
Member
newfalguy101 said:
You really believe that putting a non-functional plastic shell around the gun makes the plastic shell the new receiver?
If so, it really doesn't matter as long as he's manufacturing the weapon for his own use and not for re-sell because it's not required to have a serial number.
If covering a serial number is an issue, there's literally millions of S&W revolvers with Hogue grips covering the serial number running around out there that the ATF needs to start cracking down on. Can you believe that S&W is shipping all these darn things ILLEGALLY from the factory with their serial numbers covered (S&W serial number is on the butt and/or behind the crane, depending on the age of the revolver)?
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...4_750001_750051_757770_-1_757767_757751_image
And if any of those ATF agents or anyone else is carrying a Glock with a light on it, we really need to let them know that they're illegally covering the serial number on their weapon (Glock serial number is on a metal tag embedded in the frame between the accessory rails).
Last edited:
The thing serves as the chassis for the rifle and doesn't in any way constitute "concealing" the rifle any more than the numerous 10/22 chassis that mimic other firearms do.
Keep in mind that many chassis/new designs don't look like traditional firearms (KSG) and with 3D printing we'll see a lot of innovative attempts to improve upon ergonomics that may confuse the eye and mind. Toy/game firearm designs will be seen to some extent in these efforts
Keep in mind that many chassis/new designs don't look like traditional firearms (KSG) and with 3D printing we'll see a lot of innovative attempts to improve upon ergonomics that may confuse the eye and mind. Toy/game firearm designs will be seen to some extent in these efforts
- Status
