Best handgun for defense against mass shooting?

You're never going to be able to predict what may happen, and planning for something after-the-fact isn't practical, or realistic.

I have to point out that the recent mass shootings, you would never have been allowed to cc at those locations:
Orlando was a liquor serving nightclub; San Bernadino was inside a State-owned facility. Even the attacks in Paris happened in places where you wouldn't be allowed to carry: soccer stadium, rock concert, liquor serving restaurants.

Some places are just soft targets that you will never have control over. It becomes a personal choice whether you wanted to go to these places.

All you can really do is train the best with what you have.

jr_watkins said:

If you believe that you have an obligation to engage in such a situation, wouldn't you be better armed with larger pistol? Higher number of rounds available? Ability to get hits from a greater distance? I think so!

Maybe we should start to consider these things?

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I do but sometimes my Steyr L9-A1 isn't appropriate and I leave it in the vehicle while I go in a store with just my LCP in a tight little pancake on my belt. I'd rather always have my Steyr, with 17 rnd cap but you have to make choices every day.

Avoid places where you cannot ccw

As CWL pointed out and I do not believe that most people understand, in Florida, a concealed carrier cannot enter any place that primarily sells liquor. All of these places are gun free zones.
What do you think the odds are of an assassin wanabee walking into a gun shop or pawnshop where many or all of the employees are armed?

I as a rule, do not go into bars. I also avoid places that have posted against concealed carry. That puts the odds in my favor to avoid one of these pieces of human garbage taking a shot at me.

A defender with a handgun will almost always be at a disadvantage to an aggressor with a rifle or shotgun.

Jim

Yeah another mass shooting in a gun free zone. Go figure!! Law abiding citizens gunned down because they weren't allowed by law to defend themselves. They relied on the armed guard and the police. 49 dead Americans later.....it's the 2A's fault.

I too, do not frequent bars because I cannot carry inside. It's a risk I'm not willing to take for a good time.

My carry choice in a mass shooting would be what I always carry. XD45 with 2, 13rd mags full of 230gr PDX1's. I'm good all day to 35-40 yards. But that's also where I practice. It makes 7 yards look like 7 feet. But as confident in my abilities and my firearm, I'm so undergunned it's almost pathetic. Your best weapon in a mass shooting is the one you carry between your ears.

As for obligation, I am one of the ones who will fight for those who can't. Have been since high school. It's something you either have, or you don't. It's not as easy as a choice. And there's only one way to know. And that's to be put in that situation. That's when the ability will or willn't manifest itself. It just takes more anger or fear for some to manifest than it does others.

Well Poka, I'd hope I had my Glock 34 AR15.com with its Storm Lake .357 Sig barrel. Double Tap 125 gr JHPs at 1600 fps.

But the reality is, I'd have whatever I packed that day.

Deaf

Like already said, there us no right answer here. I guess the best answer would be the gun you own that you can shoot best.

I carry a J frame daily and I am confident in it and my ability to shoot it well BUT, in the scenario you set up I think I would rather have my 1911 on me.

if i was in that position, i'd forget capacity.
i'd want a full size gun that could do head shots at
25 yards.
i'm thinking explosive vests.

Any handgun sucks in comparison to a rifle, so who knows.

The majority of the time, I carry a G19 owb with one spare G17 mag owb as well. I wear polos and T shirts in the summer. I print a little, but no one has ever noticed. It would be way easier to drop a BG380 in a pocket and forget it's there, but everyone makes compromises and mine have been weight and concelability. It may be different for you, but I always urge people to carry the largest gun they can reasonably carry.

An older friend of mine that recently passed carried everywhere. He carried the S&W model 36 because it was big enough, small enough, controllable enough and powerful enough.....his description.

The only thing was they are five shot......so he carried three or four of them.

Actually his reasoning on the multiples was that he might have to use either hand and might be in any position when he needed to draw.

His "standard carry" was there fore a chest band with a revolver under each arm, (he could reach either with either hand) and inside the left ankle (again reachable with either hand. He would on occasion add a right ankle holster and gun or someplace on the belt, usually when in a suit something about appendix carry again to be reachable with either hand.

He was very good and very fast with either hand. Old age however will get you no matter how good you are.

My point in all that was that he worked out what worked for him and he practiced, a lot. Up to and including video taping his draws, presentations and shots and evaluating them.

No gun is a magic wand. As others have said "the best" is the one you can have with you and use effectively when needed.

-kBob

"Which handgun(s) that are able to be carried concealed do you think are the best choices to defend against a mass shooting?" [Pokajabba]

Against a murderous rifleman a defending handgunner must balance his/her cool with the controlled determination to fight, and fight hard. With that said what handguns are the equal of a rifle? Not many...if any. This morning was carrying a 1911 Monolith in 10mm and an M29 in 44 Magnum. This afternoon am carrying a Tokarev in 7.65x25mm and a SW 22-4 in 45 Super. Also on occasion will carry a SW M13 in .357 Magnum.

5 choices for stopping the crazed rifleman, any one of which should provide good survival chances.

Best to you.

pokajabba said:

Which handgun(s) that are able to be carried concealed do you think are the best choices to defend against a mass shooting?

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The same ones that are the best choices for defending against anyone attacking you - a full size duty weapon in a major caliber with multiple magazines.

How much effort are you willing to put into carrying it concealed?

Keeping that in mind, the adage of "a smaller gun with you is better than a bigger gun left at home" is still in effect, but really, is an LCP or a PM9 an overall great gun to defend against a mass shooting or the "best" gun like I asked?

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Well if it's a choice between I can conceal a LCP or I can't carry anything then a LCP is much better.
I know I can't go toe to toe with Mike Tyson the only shot I got it to sneak up behind him and wack him in the head with something and it ain't gonna matter if it's a base ball bat or a tire iron. It's the getting in a position to hit him when he ain't lookin that's the hard part.

Guys stop thinking about the rifle verses the handgun.

"It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian."

Be the better shooter and follow rule two (rule one is "avoid gunfights") have a gun AND be able to use it better than the other guy uses his.

-kBob

> which handgun

The one you put on that morning and can put your hand on, as opposed to the one you left at home because it's a hassle lugging it around and negotiating the various no-go zones.

Of the half-dozen people I know who got carry permits, *one* carried more than a couple of months, and that only because I nag at him.

Gunfight Rule #1: Bring A Gun

WHAT gun, and what caliber, and how much spare ammo, are all secondary to *having* a gun.

My Dad would kind of snicker at you and use his stern parental voice #5 saying it ain't the machine it's the operator. I am not now and never have been an infantryman. I have no idea how my shooting would be under that kind of stressful situation. If I could manage calm reflection and careful aim my .22 Woodsman would be more than enough, if not... Dad's Desert Eagle wouldn't be enough.

I suggest one concern is how much ammo you can carry. An M1911 and 2 spare 8-round mags gives you 25 rounds, including one up the spout. An 18-round 9mm WITHOUT a spare mag gives you considerably less ammo.

So pick the gun you shoot best, the one you are most confident in, and carry extra ammo.

kBob

Sorry for the loss of your friend. That kind of diligence in practice and carry is something to be admired.

Guys stop thinking about the rifle verses the handgun.

"It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian."

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This Indian has drawn an M9 with rifle rounds cracking overhead. That Beretta felt like a water pistol, and I was very glad to have had friends with long guns around.

You're a very brave person if that one maxim is all it takes for you to problem-solve the pistol v. rifle issue.

kbob said:

"It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian."

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So why don't the military and cops carry Patterson Colts and Trapdoor Springfields? Get rid of all those high cap pistols, assault rifles and squad MG's.

Would be much cheaper and we wouldn't be going through this whole "replacing the M9" fiasco.

Like psyopspc, I too have been on the receiving end of rifle fire when armed only with a pistol. Makes you realize real quick the importance of cover, how wimpy your pistol is, and how important it is to have a couple of buddies with long guns handy.

Guys.......

You know I have direct personal experience with a guaranteed stopper, but I do not think I can conceal a Pershing 1A and 300 Kt warhead in my party clothes. Besides START II required they all be burned up or taken apart

What I am trying to get across is the man is more important than the tool. Like a good guitar does not make you Chet Atkins, no particular handgun is going to turn you into "Black Widow Romanov."

There is not a soul here that can say what is best in terms of the tool.

Period. Stop.

Folks can express opinions and get puffed up until the empathy death of the universe and there will not be a "true" answer.

What matters is having A tool and knowing how to use IT.

What matters is having some sort of plan in the first place and being aware of the need to and actually updating that plan constantly.

Suppose the first person that monster in Orlando had stepped by and however briefly looked away from had pulled out an NAA mini revolver and fired one round of .22 rim fire into the base of his skull? Would a 57 shot magno ramma have done the job better? Ok so you have your big old what you macall it across the dance floor and 83 folks are running about screaming while they are between you and him. How is that working out? What will first officer friendly on the scene likely do when he sees you and magnoramma?

Would I rather have my tricked out 1911-sh than say a KelTecP32 when the smoke goes off? You betcha! But what am I more likely to have?

I am reminded of shortly after the Miami FBI shoot out. A guy on our range was discussing concealed carry and he opined that any thing less than a .38 Special was foolish and he carried a 4 inch .357 concealed. I steered the conversation to the fact that the Miami badguys got their long guns by ambushing folks like us alone on a range. While we were down range changing targets I ask him what if those guys were here right now. I ask him where his .357 was. It was in his truck. My .22 Beretta 21A was in my hand at that point. He suddenly realized that AT THAT MOMENT AND IN THAT SPOT a silly little .22 auto was one hell of a lot better than ANYTHING left 150 yards away. BTW I still maintain that what really bolluxed the Miami shoot out was an FBI agent that got tired of wearing his large-ish concealed carry gun and stuck it in the seat beside him and lost it in the bumper car action.

If the OP CAN carry a high cap service caliber pistol everywhere he might have to go, more power to him.

I would however encourage him to get something he is comfortable carrying, that is reliable, that he can get into action quickly, and shoot accurately and often.

I am done with this thread.

-kBob

I assume the OP was making what an appropriate choice of handgun would be given that terrorists exist. I would suggest that the circumstance of being caught in a terrorist incident is like any other circumstance in which one is surprised by an attack on themselves. Thus, the answer is whatever firearm the appropriately licensed individual would ordinarily carry for personal defense, given the season and clothing worn. I have always hewed to the principal that, if one can predict where and when an incident will occur, that person should avoid the circumstance, no matter how armed.

My choices vary considerably depending on the season, the weather, and my chosen dress for that day. Three things that never change are that I always try to avoid being where predictable danger of attack exists (e.g., LoDo in downtown Denver after 9:00pm), maintaining my maximum possible situational awareness no matter where I am, and strict obedience to firearms laws of the area in which I am. Those things seem more important to me than choice of firearm or caliber. That said, I always remember the old chestnut about why someone always carried a .45...the answer was, because they don't make a .46...

Cheers,

Harry

i'm thinking explosive vests.

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You'd definitely take out the bad guy, but why go to that extreme?

I would be happy with any of my CCW options.... I'd be more concerned with having closed-toe shoes/boots on with good traction. In that scenario, quickly getting to cover is going to be far more important than how many speedloaders or extra mags you've got tucked away.

So why don't the military and cops carry Patterson Colts

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Ahhh . . . because the Patterson Colts were not single shots? They were 5-shot revolvers.

The military goes looking for combat -- they go in squads, platoons, companies, battalions and brigades. They wear helmets, body armor, carry a mix of powerful weapons -- including tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, machine guns, mortars and artillery -- and are supported by attack helicopters and high-performance aircraft.

That's a bit too much for a trip to the grocery store.

So the question is, since there is a chance that on your trip to the store or your night out with the family, you might be attacked and forced to defend yourself, what sort of weapon would you choose that offers a good balance between portability, concealment and effectiveness?

I went to the range this morning and shot 150 rounds (10 magazines). Two hands, one hand, one weak hand.

My conclusion?

Still the Beretta 92FS with fiber optic sights, lighter mainspring and Wilson Combat oversize checkered magazine release button with two 15 round magazines.

Yep it is a little harder to conceal but it gives me a combat proven fighting handgun.

I've had the OPs same thoughts over the last few days. The pulse shooting happened about 45 min from me, which, logically or not, makes the threat seem more real than when the shootings were happening in Paris and San Bernardino.

I agree that mindset and skill are more crucial than model and caliber of pistol, but that being said, if I have my choice of what to carry when I leave the house, I'm bringing something that passes some minimum standards.

Caliber 9mm: proven effective with good loads.
Good capacity: 15+1 minimum. It's nice to have some extra rounds if needed to pin down an active shooter.
Accuracy at extended range: I've previously been practicing pretty much exclusively at 7 yds, and can pretty much get good accuracy with any handgun at this range. But I've decided that I need to be able to hit a brain size target at 50ft, without undue effort, with what I'm carrying. (50ft is the max distance I can shoot at my local range.)
Concealability: I should be able to keep it hidden without much effort.
Reliability: Obvious.

These criteria have driven me to carry my cz P07 of late. It's a 15+1 9mm that's proven reliable, and it's ergonomics and good trigger make it easier for me to hit small targets at further distance than the G17 I had been carrying.