45-70 Lead Bullets

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MI2600

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I'm in the process of buying an 1873 model Trapdoor. I've gone through several sites that recommend a bullet of .459 or larger. However, all of the bullet vendors are offering .458 lead bullets.
Anyone know of a source?
 
I would get the gun first before you decide on bullet size. You will want to slug the barrel and make sure that your bullets are at least .001 larger in diameter.

If you should 45-70 often, it would be a great excuse to buy a mold and cast your own. That is certainly a caliber that will not only save you money but that you can probably get better accuracy by casting and sizing bullets to suite your barrel.
 
MI2600 said:
I'm in the process of buying an 1873 model Trapdoor. I've gone through several sites that recommend a bullet of .459 or larger. However, all of the bullet vendors are offering .458 lead bullets.
Anyone know of a source?
Click to expand...

MI2600 said:
I'm in the process of buying an 1873 model Trapdoor. I've gone through several sites that recommend a bullet of .459 or larger. However, all of the bullet vendors are offering .458 lead bullets.
Anyone know of a source?
Click to expand...
I have two trapdoor Springfields that I shoot almost weekly. I use bullets from Missouri Bullet Company, 405 grain with Hi-Tech coating. I load these over 32.5 grains of H4895. Excellent accuracy, mild recoil, and no problem with leading. Be aware that the sights on the trapdoor are set for a minimum of 200 yds. For 100 yds, you must fabricate a taller front sight, or it will shoot at least 12 inches high. Have fun.
 
The MBC 405s crest mentioned are listed a.459, I had some and i measured them at or over .459 with calipers.
 
MI2600 said:
I'm in the process of buying an 1873 model Trapdoor. I've gone through several sites that recommend a bullet of .459 or larger. However, all of the bullet vendors are offering .458 lead bullets.
Anyone know of a source?
Click to expand...
Is this a reproduction?

If it's an original, you'll probably want to cast your own out of 20/1, lead/tin alloy.

Wheelwright and other hard alloys containing antimony and arsenic are reputed to be tough on the relatively soft steel of the original barrels.
 
I also use 405gr bullets from MBC and they work just fine in my original TrapDoor. With the low pressures generated by TrapDoor loads I see no need for the coated bullets. I get no leading at all with the bullets from the MBC which are in fact .459".

Just as a side note, there are a hand full of very good powders for the 45-70 at lower pressures. They include Unique, 2400, Trail Boss, 4198, RL-7 and a few more. I have been using AA5744 for the past two years and I have no plans on changing. It produces very accurate and clean burning 45-70 ammo for me. It works very well with both 300gr and 405gr Cast bullets.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
I also use 405gr bullets from MBC and they work just fine in my original TrapDoor. With the low pressures generated by TrapDoor loads I see no need for the coated bullets. I get no leading at all with the bullets from the MBC which are in fact .459".

Just as a side note, there are a hand full of very good powders for the 45-70 at lower pressures. They include Unique, 2400, Trail Boss, 4198, RL-7 and a few more. I have been using AA5744 for the past two years and I have no plans on changing. It produces very accurate and clean burning 45-70 ammo for me. It works very well with both 300gr and 405gr Cast bullets.
Click to expand...
Be very careful using Trail Boss to load an original trapdoor. Even a load that produces only 1000 fps with the 405 gr bullet produces pressure of about 25,000 cup. This is way up there for an original trapdoor.Many reloaders believe Trail Boss produces low pressures but that is not always correct. Consult Hodgdons online reloading guide and you will see what I mean. There are many powders that will produce higher velocity with far less pressure than Trail Boss. Also be careful with Unique as you could easily put a double charge which would be catastrophic in an original trap door.
 
I picked the rifle today. Excellent condition. It is stamped 1884. Somewhere I read the later versions were stronger. Any truth to that?
I also ordered some 405gr bullets from Missouri Bullet.
 
MI2600 said:
I picked the rifle today. Excellent condition. It is stamped 1884. Somewhere I read the later versions were stronger. Any truth to that?
I also ordered some 405gr bullets from Missouri Bullet.
Click to expand...
It's a trapdoor, if you want to hot rod a 45-70 then get a Ruger #1. Even if the action could take hotter loads, I doubt that the barrel is nickel steel so it will eventually split with hot smokeless loads.
 
The molds are regulated to a specific alloy. The mold is sold as a .458 possible when pouring a Lyman #2. If you add linotype or possibly more WW alloy you may get a .459 0r .460? Remember the harder the alloy the larger the bullet diameter and the lighter the bullet. Confusing isn't it.:)
 
I didn't mean to suggest I would try any warm loads. The rifle is not up to today's standards. I always go with released loads, especially in my older handguns. My latest Lyman manual has a whole section on trapdoor loads
 
Dog Soldier said:
The molds are regulated to a specific alloy. The mold is sold as a .458 possible when pouring a Lyman #2. If you add linotype or possibly more WW alloy you may get a .459 0r .460? Remember the harder the alloy the larger the bullet diameter and the lighter the bullet. Confusing isn't it.:)
Click to expand...
The other option would be to get some tin from somewhere like Rotometals and add it in. If your sizing them you could just get an NOE mold as they are to drop at .460 to begin with. With 20 to 1 mine drop at .461.
 
Tin provides only adds a very minimum of hardness to your alloy. Tin is added to increase the viscosity so the alloy gives a better fill in the mold block. Tin is also very expensive. You may also consider 20/20 solider. Antimony is used to harden the lead. I use Linotype for high pressure rounds and add it to harden other alloys.
 
Dog Soldier said:
Tin provides only adds a very minimum of hardness to your alloy. Tin is added to increase the viscosity so the alloy gives a better fill in the mold block. Tin is also very expensive. You may also consider 20/20 solider. Antimony is used to harden the lead. I use Linotype for high pressure rounds and add it to harden other alloys.
Click to expand...
It's my understanding that with the melting temp of antimony being higher than lead creates a situation that when you add it without some tin, it will reduce the diameter of the bullet dropping from the mould while still making it harder and lighter. If a guy hasn't been casting for several years (I've only been at for about 3 years) coming across WW or Linotype for little or no cost can be pretty difficult sometimes.
 
"...I read the later versions were stronger..." Nope. Still uses TD load data. And a .458" will do nicely.
 
Since you have not cast for awhile get a Lyman Cast Bullet book. I have all of the common alloys and tin, Antimony etc. If you know some local bullet caster they can direct you to a lead source. If you need any help casting PM me.:)
 
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