Hunting buddy who doesn't shoot well. Need advice.

Could be the adrenaline factor(buck fever) as others have said, or it could be how he rests his barrel/rifle when sighting in his rifle. Sometimes, where one rests their gun when shooting off a bench, can make for a dramatic change of POI from when shooting freehand. Far too many folks never shoot their gun off bags/rests until they get to the field.

He should practice at the range using the same positions he will be using when hunting. It's one thing to shoot clover leafs off a steady concrete bench with sand bags; a whole 'nother thing to be standing, kneeling, shooting from a stand, etc.

627PCFan said:

So I have a hunting buddy who wounded 2 deer with me yesterday and need some suggestions to help him. Yesterday we had 2 bucks walk in on us and to make a long story short he winged the first one and hit the second with a center mass gut shot. I ended up taking the winged deer with my rifle and finishing the second off with a revolver because it just laid down. Both shots when taken were only 45 yards with a 30-06 zeroed at 100. Last year he had a bad shot at a similar distance that resulted in a lost deer. He is not a tall guy and I think recoil may be a contributing factor but the irony is he only bench shoots and hes a decent shot there. He rolls his own ammo and it is quality so I think that's a non-issue. Deer season is over on the 5th so hes done for the next 10 months. Any ideas as to ways to practice shooting or give him an accuracy goal to improve his shooting before he heads out again?

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How does he feel about his performance? What does he think the issue is? Does he have concerns about injuring the animals like that and causing unnecessary suffering?

Have him shoot his 30 06 off hand (standing unsupported) 100 yards at a paper plate or an 8" or 10" steel gong. With you or others watching.

Small game hunting may also be helpful.

Generally, he should get off the bench and place himself in more stressful shooting situations.

If it were me, I would tell myself that I should not hunt big game until I'm able to shoot more proficiently due to potential safety and ethical issues.

readyeddy said:

Have him shoot his 30 06 off hand (standing unsupported) 100 yards at a paper plate or an 8" or 10" steel gong. With you or others watching.

Small game hunting may also be helpful.

Generally, he should get off the bench and place himself in more stressful shooting situations.

If it were me, I would tell myself that I should not hunt big game until I'm able to shoot more proficiently due to potential safety and ethical issues.

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To add to that, if you are doing fair chase in areas of terrain, he needs to do some form of exercise to get his heart rate up and then shoot off-hand.

Lots of good ideas here with the buck fever, shoot from field positions, use targets photos for judging where to put the shot. I bet all would be helpful as it is probably not just one thing. Something l haven't seen mentioned is does his rifle fit. You mention he is shorter. If the stock is too long he may be able to jam himself into a position that works at the bench. However when in an unfamiliar field position he may be uncomfortable and also have a poor sight picture. Nothing ruins confidence ( and the shot) worse than being in uncomfortable with the whole situation. May have to start at the beginning with breath control, proper fit and form. This is best accomplished with a very light recoiling rifle or by dry firing. Confidence is the key to good shooting. Solid basics is the key to confidence .

Buck fever....

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Yup,,,,,,

If he shoots alot of targets, he may simply be unconsciously just aiming at the "middle"
Or he may just be a bad shot on game because of buck fever as previously stated. Jerks the trigger, jumps the shot etc.

If he can shoot decent groups from the bench I doubt it's recoil related unless he shoots from a sled.

Honestly I've got a buddy who's just straight up a bad shot, when we hunt together I always kinda keep an eye on what he's shooting, if it dosent stay down I'll usually shoot it again. It's not an ideal situation, but it works well enough.

Olon said:

That's sad. Got any prairie dog towns?

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LOL, the OP is from Virginia, more than 1000 miles from any prairie dog towns except at the zoo. However, VA does have plenty of squirrels. Have the friend work on head shooting squirrels at distance with the deer rifle in accord with game laws - No body shots, ONLY head shots. It will teach him patience in watching animal behavior, trigger control, etc. Or he will not score any hits which will maybe help him get the point that he needs to work on his shooting.

If that doesn't work, suggest he get some private shooting instruction.

Just curious, did you verify the zero of the rifle. Is everything functioning properly? Does he have a loose or bad scope?

Well, I've had a few fellows like that..., when I was in the service. Sometimes it was with pistols, sometimes with rifles, sometimes with anti-tank missiles. Solution was the same in all cases.

Once you figure out if the weapon system is properly fitting the shooter..., plus they could see (you'd be surprized to find out how many folks think they see "fine" and don't) ...then you have to get them to practice A LOT. For some reason the unaccustomed act of shouldering or aiming whatever it is.... bothers them, PLUS they are trying to sight in on a target....and in the field that target is going to move a bit from time to time....really unnerving for some folks....

The practice includes dry-fire drills, as well as range time (look for flinching, get them to build up stamina in tight shooting postures, etc) ..., and once they get the basics down, then you have to come up with odd situations. In your case, odd shooting stances, obstacles, different lighting. Different kneeling, squatting, and sitting stances. Shooting with a tree as a support, etc. Shoot sooo much that the "problem" shooter has had to solve sooo many problems one at a time.... nothing is really "new and odd" for them...so that they are only faced with concentrating against the excitement of looking down the sights at that deer...and being patient. Squeeze off that shot.... No other factors.

LD

I live minutes from Virginia. He won't have p-dogs. But he will have groundhog if he is anywhere near the south west part. Farmers will let you shoot all you want. Coyotes too

Have him shoot your rifle. You shoot his.
That should verify whether it is gun or shooter.
Some people dont have a killer instinct, and balk when it comes time to shed blood. They do fine on paper.

Double Naught Spy said:

LOL, the OP is from Virginia, more than 1000 miles from any prairie dog towns except at the zoo. However, VA does have plenty of squirrels. Have the friend work on head shooting squirrels at distance with the deer rifle in accord with game laws - No body shots, ONLY head shots. It will teach him patience in watching animal behavior, trigger control, etc. Or he will not score any hits which will maybe help him get the point that he needs to work on his shooting.

If that doesn't work, suggest he get some private shooting instruction.

Just curious, did you verify the zero of the rifle. Is everything functioning properly? Does he have a loose or bad scope?

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Well I've never been East of Louisville, KY so color me clueless

I’m in a similar boat. I have a buddy that puts in with us and we like him and he’s a good guy. He’s a good shot on paper. He practices. He uses great gear. But put a real animal in front of him and bad stuff happens almost every time. He gets severe shot anxiety.

So frustrating this year on our deer hunt. It was a very good hunt with bucks everywhere and getting him just any buck was a chore. A small miracle even.

He loves to hunt. He’s a good glasser. He wants to succeed. I want him to succeed. But it’s been incredibly frustrating last couple hunts trying to fill his tag.

I feel like in his case, anxiety is the main culprit. I think the only way to fix it is for him to just make a couple good shots and gain confidence. That has not been possible last couple years.


Not sure how much that relates to the OP, may be more of an inexperience issue than anxiety like mine but I feel the frustration regardless. Some people just aren’t killers. I think it can be learned but not sure how to facilitate it other than practice at killing, not shooting.

Had to pin point an acceptable reason as there are many that could qualify. J/sn.

Sounds like Buck Fever to me. As others have said it should go away after he takes a few deer. I'd gave him practice offhand with 8 inch steel plates. Maybe put him on a timer to simulate some stress.

I agree with Yogi Berra's philosophy.
90% of marksmanship is half mental.

If he can shoot well off the bench then he isn't flinching.
My guess is when hunting he's peeking (looking to see the effect of his shot before it has connected).
That and or buck fever.

The fever might be increased due to lack of stability in field positions (not holding steady upsetting him and making it worse).

So..............put him on a camera/shooting tripod if in a blind.

Have him shoot deer targets from field positions at the range.

There may be some psych issues, zeroing targets, paper plates w dots........vs a deer silhouette/ target.
If he shoots OK on the range, might be due to comfort there.

And.........a deer is a target. Aiming point changes depending on angle (the target is inside the deer, not on the outside.
One must think 3D, and pick the correct aiming point based on that. Pick a spot, then shoot the spot.

It is that simple.

If one thinks that way.
Too many see the deer and forget to pick a spot.

Aim small, miss small.

IMHO he should shoot at a dot on a target, plate paper or whatever.
Not just try for some 8" paper plate or gong.
That's too much slop IMHO.

What is his visual acuity? Mine used to be excellent, which allowed fine detail. For me, finer detail made for finer focus..........it just did.
Didn't have to think about it.
Know that after 30 plus yrs, my eyes are not as good and it has caused me to pretty much suck at indoor archery.
I can see the bullseye, but not the X in the bullseye (like I used to).
That and mental changes (getting lazy?).............I shoot good, just half arsing it. But bad enough to not be competitive any more.
And that just irks me.
So I gave up indoor archery.

I still whip most folks at the gun range, without even trying. Honks some other shooters off.
Guess most deer killers, hobby shooters........just can't shoot very well.
For whatever reasons.
Not saying they all are horrible, no. Decent enough to get the job done, if using a bench LOL.
Many of them use systems that hurt their abilities, and or try stuff that fits or is set up poorly.
And then they have all sorts of nonsense as to why things work the way they do.

Tons of hype, junk science and redneck logic.
Had more than one claim my gear too expensive, me too picky etc etc.
My targets better than my critics.

I was shooting golf balls at 50 yards with my 35 remington ...........offhand.........and they just shook their heads.
Yeah, added cheekpiece, weight to forend.
But oh that stuff doesn't matter.
The hell it doesn't!
That gun without those mods was super twitchy .
Was easy to shoot when the balance and fit was right.

My buddy shoots OK at the range.
He is very conservative on his hunting shot selection.
So even when he misses the mark by a bit, it still gets the job done.
For whatever reason, he pulls em now and then. Right or left.
Dunno what is going on.
He doesn't either, just accepts it and stays within the limits afforded by his bullet placement history.
Can't argue with that

Teach him to bow hunt. don't let him shoot past 25 yards..
He'll watch enough deer to get buck fever out of him,, Just a thought ; )
Y/D

Drag him to an Appleseed shoot! Multi-position training and good for everyone!

Hookeye said:

IMHO he should shoot at a dot on a target, plate paper or whatever.
Not just try for some 8" paper plate or gong.
That's too much slop IMHO.

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I think this is a really important point.

When shooting a 10” gong offhand at 100 yards the goal should be to hit a 2” circle in the center of the target. Not necessarily to hit the 2” circle, but to increase your hit rate on the gong. Some people call this “aim small miss small”.

627PCFan said:

Thanks for the ideas. I had a talk with him and we are going to load up 200 rounds of his hunting ammo for practice this year and and none will be bench shooting, all offhand and on the clock for some pressure. I also have an 8" gong and I'm trying to get him to purchase a 22LR for cheaper practice and I'm going to make him go squirrel hunting because his stalking ability is just about that of a elephant in the woods during the fall. Also he is not a hunter by background and he owned up to shooting the gutshot deer in the gut because it was his only shot and he didnt want to go home empty handed. Needless to say we have an ethics talk coming up in a while. I have to remind myself hes not a hunter....

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Focus on the shooting ability first. The ethics talk can come closer to season. You are on the right track.