Double Rifles

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Llama Bob said:
You can get them custom-made on certain shotgun boxlocks at reasonable prices.

Honestly though I think the double is more than a little an artifact of history. It's faster than a bolt, but not really faster than a lever (especially on the 3rd+ shot) and they're very heavy. With the advent of levers with NE level performance, it's hard to imagine we'd be doing doubles if we did it over again. A .50-110 lever (that is perfectly regulated ;) ) can be built for ~$2000.
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Here's a nice Chapuis for under $7K:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...10-375-h-h-belted-magnum.cfm?gun_id=101279291

A Merkel:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...tory-qd-mounts-nice-wood.cfm?gun_id=101186171

And a nice Heym 4 barrel set all built on a 20 gauge frame:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...coped-20-w-7-briley-chok.cfm?gun_id=101295556
 
For some reason, Under/Over doubles are generally less expensive than Side by Side. Said to be easier to regulate, too.

A lefthanded express rifle is going to be a slow seller. For some reason the Chapuis www comes up with a lefthand cheekpiece on a double.
I wonder if they are true lefthand guns, with the top lever going the other way. Probably not, but a British Best would, for a lot more money.

The rifle calibers on that Heym overlap a lot; hard to see the point of both .500 and .470 barrels.

The .375 is a queer duck.
Taylor said it was more effective than its caliber and ballistics indicated, good for anything but fighting elephants in the bush.
Layne Simpson said that every time somebody said: "Those Cape Buffalo are tough, had to shoot it seven times." He would come back "Shooting a .375, weren't you?" The nimrod would nearly always reply "Well yes, but how did you know?"
 
And suffered numerous "unexplained misses" as he put it - that is, failures of terminal performance.

The number of people who talk about Bell greatly exceeds the number of people who've read Bell. He was a poacher concerned primarily with minimizing his costs. Effective terminal performance was lost on him.
 
Today, double rifles are about romance rather than practicality. I have a shelf of the Double Gun Journal issues that I bought just to oogle the color photos of rifles I'll never be able to afford. https://www.doublegunshop.com/doublegunjournal.htm

I owned a Biakal O/U .308 Winchester (extractor modified to also take rimmed .307 Winchester) for awhile, but concluded that the SxS is really the way to go if you don't have selective ejectors. After firing I found the bottom cartridge a royal pain to extract and replace -- the rifle was effectively a single-shot after shooting the first pair.

Double.gif

I also looked into the Valmet/Tikka 412/512 system and owned a shotgun-barreled version for a short time. Not surprisingly, quality was much more refined than the Biakal, but I eventually decided the Kreighoff top lock it uses takes too much muscle to open. So much for the economy (sub-$2K) end of the pool. Both the Baikal and Valmet use a user-adjustable pair of regulation points to avoid the high skilled labor cost of regulating the barrels to a common point of aim.

The Pedersoli Kodiak in 45-70 always intrigued me, but the price has gone up in recent years into the $6K range.
https://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/KODIAK-MARK-IV-DOUBLE-RIFLE-45-70-24-Pedersoli-p1160.htm

For a classic 'economy' double, I'd look for a Damascus or fluid steel barreled Jones underlever SxS in one of the smaller bore black powder rifle cartridges, circa 1880s. These are beautiful, rugged guns that, from the lesser-known makers, command far lower prices than the nitro express doubles. They'll show up on Gunbroker and Simpsons Ltd., but the retailers on this list will usually have the better selection: https://www.doublegunshop.com/gunrack.htm
 
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Gah, $6000 for a Pedersoli double (and in .45-70 which seems poorly suited due to the high pressures required for performance to boot). I can't imagine those are flying off the shelves.
 
Dave DeLaurant said:
For a classic 'economy' double, I'd look for a Damascus or fluid steel barreled Jones underlever SxS in one of the smaller bore black powder rifle cartridges, circa 1880s.
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A friend has a Webley with Jones underlever, plain locks, and Alex Henry steel barrels in .450 BPE.
Loaded period, 105 gr of powder and a 330 gr Gould Express is spectacular. Doesn't regulate well, though.
We found a Nitro-for-Black load that brought both barrels close together at 60 yards but the 300 gr bullet is discontinued.
I am good for about a "pair and a half", my fourth shot will likely be flinched away. So if you can find something like a .360 or .400, it will be a lot more fun to plink with and still a good iron sight deer rifle.

I got all enthused over a "Manton" in .32-40 Winchester of all things. A modern gun, apparently a German action stocked up in England or at least in English style. I could have afforded it but could not figure out what it was good for, so passed it up.
 
Robert said:
Because he snuck up on them and shot them through the ear. Seriously.

H&Hhunter is resident expert on doubles and what it takes to stop seriously angry African game. His personal rifle is a Searcy 470NE. Says it can be a tad small on big elephant...
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I never said the 7x57 was the best tool for the job; only that it has been done and not just once or twice. Personally, anything more than a 416 or larger would be my choice.
 
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brutus51 said:
Offfhand that is one beautiful rifle, easy to see why they are so expensive. How long are the barrels and what does it weigh.


The barrels are 26" and weight is a few ounces under 9 Lbs. It's the lightest double I've ever owned and was bought for hunting NA elk. the .400/.360 Nitro is a somewhat medium power caliber with a 310 gr bullet. An interesting feature of this rifle is in addition to the usual folding express sights is a "hidden" aperture sight. As the pics show, the sight is tucked in the real for the tang. By pressing the tab on right of tang the peep aperture snaps up for use. Also note the "bolted" safety, another feature on some dangerous game rifles.


DSC00078.JPG DSC00079.JPG
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Offhand, I think you have the Holy Grail of rifles, I'm green with envy.:notworthy: I can't even think you would consider taking it afield for fear of putting a scratch on it.
How often do you shoot it? I can only assume you need to reload for it. Am I correct?
 
Jim Watson said:
A friend has a Webley with Jones underlever, plain locks, and Alex Henry steel barrels in .450 BPE.Loaded period, 105 gr of powder and a 330 gr Gould Express is spectacular. Doesn't regulate well, though.We found a Nitro-for-Black load that brought both barrels close together at 60 yards but the 300 gr bullet is discontinued.
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You might suggest your friend takes another look around the cast bullet market -- the 458 Socom has resulted in a surge of lighter cast bullets that might work.

I got all enthused over a "Manton" in .32-40 Winchester of all things. A modern gun, apparently a German action stocked up in England or at least in English style. I could have afforded it but could not figure out what it was good for, so passed it up.
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Oh my! The 32-40 would be delightful to shoot in a double.
 
https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=( 9.3x74R)

In the medium bore market the 9.3x74R is far and away the best deal going. A new Chapuis UGEX is $6400. I see good used ones under $5000 all the time. In the big bore market you can get into a Searcy, Merkle, krieghoff, Blaser, Chapuis for for around $10K plus or minus pretty easy on the used market. And if you really want to go cheap you can get a Sabbatti for well under $5k. And you’ll get what you pay for on the Sabbatti too. They are pretty much junk.

The big money doubles are always going to be the bespoke classic British guns. If I was looking for a working double at a doable price point today I’d look real hard at Heym or Chapuis. Heyms are more expensive but I like them a lot. Searcy’s are hit and miss on quality and getting worse.
 
Caplock said:
Kid did a lot of gun cleaning. Apparently when you have that type of money you send guns back for cleaning and test firing.
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Searcy as part of his warranty and customer service takes his rifles in once a year for a free complete cleaning of the internals and performs any adjustments that are needed on his rifles. It is important to completely clean and lubricate the insides of your double from time to time. Which is one of the nice things about a side lock with removable locks. It makes that job much easier.
 
Chapuis and Sabatti are the cheapest entry to the double rifle market. They both make decent guns that are regulated to a serviceable point of aim. Used doubles by both makers are available sub $10K.

In the other hand, I had a Kodiak Express MkIII muzzle loading 58 cal rifle made by Pedersoli that I bought second hand for $600. It took me a while to get load and bullet right, but I eventually got consistent 2" prints from both barrels at 100 yards. There is nothing in North America, including polar bears, that cannot be taken with that rifle, but I'm not sure I would gamble on having onky two shots with the polar bear... It was very heavy, at least 12 lbs, and pretty impractical. But, for the price of a single decent used cartridge double, you could buy a brace and hire a bearer!
 
I completely forgot that Pedersoli was making double barrel percussion rifles, but if I had that bad an itch for one, I'd get one over any breechloader. Because of regulation issues, I doubt anyone is going to be shooting a double rifle further than 200 yards and every time I shoot a muzzleloader, be it revolver or rifle, I'm always amazed at how accurate they are.

I do wonder how much better the groups would be with a 10 thousand or 100 thousand dollar double rifle are over one for one or two grand.
 
DocRock said:
Chapuis and Sabatti are the cheapest entry to the double rifle market. They both make decent guns that are regulated to a serviceable point of aim. Used doubles by both makers are available sub $10K.

In the other hand, I had a Kodiak Express MkIII muzzle loading 58 cal rifle made by Pedersoli that I bought second hand for $600. It took me a while to get load and bullet right, but I eventually got consistent 2" prints from both barrels at 100 yards. There is nothing in North America, including polar bears, that cannot be taken with that rifle, but I'm not sure I would gamble on having onky two shots with the polar bear... It was very heavy, at least 12 lbs, and pretty impractical. But, for the price of a single decent used cartridge double, you could buy a brace and hire a bearer!
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I’ll have to disagree with you on Sabbatti’s being regulated to a “serviceable” point of aim. If you get lucky you might get a Sabbatti that is regulated. But be really careful if you are going to buy one to look at the crowns of the barrel. Sabatti’s solution to lousy regulation was to grind the crown down on one side of the offending barrel to try and achieve some semblance of regulation.

That’s why you can buy a Sabbatti for $3k and even cheaper. They are trash.

Chapouis on the other hand are real rifles, they are well built, usually well regulated and dependable. There is no comparison between the two makers in terms of quality.
 
A drilling would help with the desire for a double rifle. They can be found pretty cheap. I was just drooling over a 16x16 over 9.3x72 has claw mounts and a nice scope for $3800.

Looking some more there are many under $2000 that look in great condition.
 
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