Mouse guns...Love ‘em or hate ‘em?

It used to be the case that whenever someone said "mouse gun",,,
It was automatically assumed it was a .22 or a .25 ACP.



Now however there are several .32 ACP or .380 ACP pistols that are physically the same size.

I really enjoy shooting my two Taurus mouse guns,,,
They are simply fun to plink with.

But since my Ruger LCP is physically the same size,,,
I see no reason to carry the weaker cartridges.

Unless someone believes that 10 rounds of .25 ACP are better than 7 rounds of .380 ACP.

Aarond

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somethingbenign said:

This actually brings up another complaint of small guns. I've tried to get instruction with them to make the best of the bad situation that is carrying one in the first place. My local instructors refused, one so much as told me being unarmed is better than any gun smaller than a G17. Really killed my faith in my local trainers.

Edit: He said G19, not G17.

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That's because he cannot shoot one worth a damn. Or he trains mostly new shooters and believes they should start with a larger pistol. I would agree on the latter. I started large and moved down over the years. And It is my opinion that small barrel guns for the most part are for a advanced shooter, or someone willing to put the time and money into becoming proficient with one.

Jeb Stuart said:

Or he trains mostly new shooters and believes they should start with a larger pistol. I would agree on the latter. I started large and moved down over the years. And It is my opinion that small barrel guns for the most part are for a advanced shooter, or someone willing to put the time and money into becoming proficient with one.

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This is definitely me right now. A new shooter that is motivated to put in the time, at least with dry fire, can only afford limited amounts of ammo. Had a classmate express a desire to "teach guys a lesson by the rebar pile" when referring to guys that matched the political persuasion he accused me of having (comically he is wrong in this assumption, not that it matters). He then showed up the next week to inform me of my home address, parents address, and the names of all neighbors in case I forgot any of that information. None of this is documented in any way so any legal action is out of the question. Needless to say being armed as often as legally possible is a high priority but when guys refuse to teach me how to make the best of the situation...it is demoralizing to say the least. Hell, just a class on how to better conceal would go a long way. Sorry for the drift but felt it was useful to give some flavor as to why some choose the guns they do.

Duplicate

Massad Ayoob uses (used) the term "Bad breath range", at least I think it was him the first time I read it. At "BBR" having learned a lot from Paul Harrell's YouTube channel (along comes a man that actually knows what he's talking about) a .22 properly loaded () as well as a .25 would certainly do the job as would a .32 and certainly a .380, it's all about shot placement if it came to that but most gunfights between civilians and felons rarely happen (other than road rage for example) once a felon is presented with the knowledge that his victim has teeth and claws. But there are limitations to a mouse gun caliber and one of those is penetration through thick clothing at distances above 25 yard, which brings us back to the fact that at 25 or even 21 yards, will a jury see it as SD or not. I think that's irrelevant for this discussion though, the question is, where is your personal comfort zone and is it based on reality or wishful thinking?
If all I had was a 22 or 25 I would make do, if all I could handle was a 32 or 380 I would carry 2 guns, one being a Beretta 81 or 84 along with a 3032 for the pocket or a NAA (32/380) or Seecamp (32). Having nothing more than a mousegun it would have to be at least a 380 for the energy factor which is much better than any 32 performance and then my choice would be a Beretta 84/85 or a CZ83 knowing that I cam either belt or pocket carry and I have 13 rounds, maybe a KelTec or LCP as bug.
But in this age of subcompact 9mm why not go the extra mile and get an R1 or a 938 or a 365?
When the chips are down, even a full sized 92, a 1911 or a Hi-Power is going to feel mighty small when facing more than one felon, as a former LEO there were a few times I had wished I took the extra 3 seconds to grab my patrol rifle even though in the end 99.9% of the time no shots were fired. The few times that I did have to fire my sidearm it felt like a pop gun and the one time I wounded someone it was a 12 gauge slug that ended up in the perps shoulder and he was still able to run away and I found him after a 10 minute search, cuffed him and took him to the hospital where the doc showed me the X-ray.
Clint Smith says a handgun should be comforting not comfortable but I'll add to that it also has to be viable. Most civilian gun fights end without a shot but that's most, not all.
When I was younger and and my eyesight was good and I was a good shot at the range including stressful shooting exercises, nothing can prepare you for the real stress factors in a real kill or be killed situation and so taking this into account, my strategy is open distance, find cover, get out if possible because a guy running at you with a knife is probably your worst nightmare, not getting shot by a handgun. Most handgun victims live but a 3 or 4" blade will do much more damage and most perps are going to keep their intentions private until they are at BBR. Do you really want a pip squeak gun?

I posted this previously.
This is my cell phone handgun. It's something I put together for when I take my morning walks during tank top and shorts weather which around here is usually 8 months out of the year. The phone case was once used for my Nokia brick cell 15 years ago. I've had the .25 caliber Beretta 950 for about 40 years. I know the .25 isn't an optimal self defense round but it's lightweight and reliable. With an adjustable Velcro strap it attaches to a belt loop at my 2 o'clock, looks just like a cell phone and it doesn't alarm any baby stroller moms or dog walkers.
The extra magazine fits in the front accessory pocket and the pistol fits nice and snug in the main pocket. It weighs just a little over 12 ounces

I have a few that I would and have carried situationally. Even the much maligned .32S&W will do the job assuming a good hit at close range.

Ignore the 2nd gun in .38S&W. That's just a bit substantial to be a "mousegun".

Kleanbore said:

RG, those look they would be a lot of fun to shoot!

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I'll tell you, .32S&W loaded with blackpowder is maybe the most fun I've ever had pulling a trigger. The noise is so disproportionate to the gun it's coming out of and the bullet travels slowly enough that you can hear it arrive at the target after the report of the shot with a nice satisfying WHACK.

RevolvingGarbage said:

I'll tell you, .32S&W loaded with blackpowder is maybe the most fun I've ever had pulling a trigger. The noise is so disproportionate to the gun it's coming out of and the bullet travels slowly enough that you can hear it arrive at the target after the report of the shot with a nice satisfying WHACK.

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Here's a Hopkins & Allen above a modern Beretta Pico:

jar said:

Here's a Hopkins & Allen above a modern Beretta Pico:

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Wow, the lines on that H&A are gorgeous! I haven't taken a close look at one of those but I would really like to. I wonder if that latch is a copy of the Pryse system. Is there a stud on each side of the gun or just one?

Little Rossi S&WL given to me by a friend whose father passed away. From the looks of the gun, I don't think he even put 50 rds through it. Heavy double action, but single action is light, and the gun is, for me, crazy accurate. Cir 1990's from what I can find out.
Came with a nice Velvet lined Case for it.

By the way, thought I would throw in a pic of my 642. There is a reason why they call it a AIRWEIGHT only about 14 oz unloaded.

RevolvingGarbage said:

Wow, the lines on that H&A are gorgeous! I haven't taken a close look at one of those but I would really like to. I wonder if that latch is a copy of the Pryse system. Is there a stud on each side of the gun or just one?

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Both sides. It's just an easier way to unlatch. The model is the "Safety Police". It came in two sizes IIRC, the small 32S&W as shown and a larger framed 38S&W.

Between a Smith DA 4th model and a Webley IV: the cartridge is a 38S&W for relative size

Years ago I had some in .22, .25 and .32. I used to carry one or two when I carried large sums of money. I got rid of them except a little .22 that was later stolen from my truck. I recently owned a DB380 that was very accurate and a DB9.

NAA-22S

Would that be a Mouse Gun or a Shrew Gun?
It's certainly the smallest I've ever seen.

I just did a quick inventory and discovered I don't really have a mouse gun anymore except for my LWSs. I have a few .32s (.32 acp and .327 fed mag) I have but one .380 acp, a few J frame .38 spls, and a .22lr revolver (the other .22lrs are bigger semi autos). I haven't owned a .25 acp in years and I've traded off my mini .22 mouse guns. here's a pick of my mouse gun calibers, duplicate guns were not included. I lament letting go the Kel-tec P32 I had. of course weight matters when it comes to mouse/pockets guns. the 342-1PD [with the lock removed] weighs 10.8 ounces unloaded, the LWS32 weighs 11 ounces unloaded, not sure about the LCR22 but its right around there as well.

Nice selection Jerry. I have one of the new Ruger LCP 22s on my wish list and think I about to go ahead and order it. Just having a gun, even a small one can make a difference.

My only problem with mouse guns is a need a few more. I’m out right now. I have had 3 all berettas two jetfire 88 and one tomcat. Life got in the way and they are all gone.

Ratshooter said:

Nice selection Jerry. I have one of the new Ruger LCP 22s on my wish list and think I about to go ahead and order it. Just having a gun, even a small one can make a difference.

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I just don't see myself getting another mini .22 semiauto unless its in trade.

JERRY said:

I just don't see myself getting another mini .22 semiauto unless its in trade.

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I guess I had such a good experience with the two Iver Johnson TP 22s that I really want another pocket 22 auto. I carried that first IJ auto with me everywhere even before it was legal to do so. I had it with me when I stopped at a rest area once out of desperation and saw a guy watching me go in the head. I knew he was either a robber or a funny boy. I had that little gun pressed against my chest while taking a leak just in case he walked in. Two other guys walked in and when I left he was not to be found. About 10 days later he and another guy killed another motorist trying to rob him at the rest stop on the other side of the highway. They had their pictures in the local paper and I recognized the white guy I saw earlier. He was a former Parker county sheriffs deputy.

I don't stop at unoccupied rest stops anymore.

Now to your point--our moderator GEM sometimes carries a J-Frame, and he speaks highly of Claude Werner's snubbie course.

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I truly prefer a Glock but as said, when dress circumstance indicate that the J is better, that's what I carry. However, as I've stated and Kleanbore mentioned, I spent the time being competent with it beyond the square range hole punching exercise (I do that once in awhile also). Thus, I took Claude's class. I've shot a specifically designed short range match with it and used it in IDPA matches. Thus, I have a good grasp of it's usage.

My take, again, is that is a primarily close up, one or two (hope not) opponent gun and the scenario can be handled with one cylinder's worth. That is a risky assumption. While I've done distance shots with it (similar to the church), I certainly don't recommend it as the platform for such, if I had the responsibility as a designated defender.

It is what is and I tried to be familiar with its limits.

I wouldn't trust a 22 LR small semi - despite folks sayng theirs is great, I've seen too many of them be jammers. The current quality 380s work for me.