45 Colt - newbie question

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Now that is interesting, after all the years we've been lectured not to say that.
Thanks, Jim and LAH. And Elmer was there.
Moon
 
Just because Elmer called something a specific name doesn’t automatically make it gospel. FWIW the name he used for African Americans was not a good one.
 
Is it possible that cannelures are simply decoration, an aesthetic addition?
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Phillip Sharpe thought so - back in 1937 when he mentioned that as one reason why revolver cases have a cannelure.
It's on the same page where he also mentions they added a cannelure to differentiate between smokeless and black powder loadings.
 
DR505 said:
Just a suggestion, but you might want to read a person’s entire post before you start arguing. Otherwise you won’t be taken seriously when you argue and bring up a point already brought up, but you didn’t read it. This suggestion is meant to be helpful, not critical.
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Shouldn't have to read the whole post to know the part I quoted was wrong. I can't help if a person doesn't contradicts themselves in a page long post.
 
There were several factual posts. Plain and simple it is a crimp to keep the bullet from pushing into the case. If you've ever had that happen in a tube magazine rifle and have it lock up then you might believe them.
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If that's true - then - why did they put a cannelure on 100 plus year old .38 special & .45 Colt's - cartridges that weren't used in tubular magazines until the 1980's?

I can see where sometimes it would have been used in cartridge cases that were chambered in both revolvers & rifles with a tubular magazine - but - that's not the case.
In the old illustrations found in the old ammunition price lists/catalogs - that go back to 1875 & can be found here:

https://cartridgecollectors.org/ammunition-catalogs

You can clearly see the cannelure on cases - where the loads are offered in both smokeless & black powder - which supports the claim made in the forums there that that's why they were put there in the first place.

Phil Sharpe - in his Complete Guide to Handloading - published in 1937 -

also states that cannelures were put in cases of revolver cartridges that were sole in smokeless & black powder, as a way to differentiate between the two.
He also says in that same essay that sometimes a cannelure was added for nothing more than aesthetic reasons.
That's from a person that began working with ammunition
Here's a link to that you can go through:

https://archive.org/details/Complete_Guide_to_Handloading_Sharpe_1937

As far as Colt & Long Colt go - I don't care & I never said one or the other was right or wrong.

I said that - from 1875 until roughly 1919 - over 40 years - the ammunition catalogs list it as .45 Colt's - Colt with an apostrophe S.
They list all cartridges made for all Colt's - as Colt's - Colt with an apostrophe S.
That would stand to reason since even back then it was Colt's Manufacturing - not Colt Manufacturing.
 
Hal said:
If that's true - then - why did they put a cannelure on 100 plus year old .38 special & .45 Colt's - cartridges that weren't used in tubular magazines until the 1980's?

I can see where sometimes it would have been used in cartridge cases that were chambered in both revolvers & rifles with a tubular magazine - but - that's not the case.
In the old illustrations found in the old ammunition price lists/catalogs - that go back to 1875 & can be found here:

https://cartridgecollectors.org/ammunition-catalogs

You can clearly see the cannelure on cases - where the loads are offered in both smokeless & black powder - which supports the claim made in the forums there that that's why they were put there in the first place.

Phil Sharpe - in his Complete Guide to Handloading - published in 1937 -

also states that cannelures were put in cases of revolver cartridges that were sole in smokeless & black powder, as a way to differentiate between the two.
He also says in that same essay that sometimes a cannelure was added for nothing more than aesthetic reasons.
That's from a person that began working with ammunition
Here's a link to that you can go through:

https://archive.org/details/Complete_Guide_to_Handloading_Sharpe_1937

As far as Colt & Long Colt go - I don't care & I never said one or the other was right or wrong.

I said that - from 1875 until roughly 1919 - over 40 years - the ammunition catalogs list it as .45 Colt's - Colt with an apostrophe S.
They list all cartridges made for all Colt's - as Colt's - Colt with an apostrophe S.
That would stand to reason since even back then it was Colt's Manufacturing - not Colt Manufacturing.
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Plain and simply the photos and comments in this thread are calling the light roll marks cannelures but they are two different things. The older turn of the century cases with the deep cannelure held the bullets from moving back in the case and some had cannelures low to hold the primer cup in place. I have been told the factory seating operation for a lot of older cartridges gripped and crimped the case to keep from crushing it which would explain the cannelure on older 45 and 38 cases. I definately buy that on very old cases that may have been softer copper that would crush seating and crimping a bullet. All these other marks some have posted in this thread all over the cases that are not deep were likely put there to help identify the ammo, decoration, maybe to hold the cartridge during bullet seating or who knows but they aren't deep enough to hold a bullet and are not really a cannelure by definition. A cannelure is actually a groove, people here are really talking about two different things and trying to debunk the purpose of a genuine cannelure buy calling something what it is not.
 
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Master Blaster said:
Really??

index.php
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I don't know why those marks are there or what that mess is but I wouldn't call those cannelures because they don't appear to be deep enough to hold anything and they are not at any consistent location on the brass.

I know a lot of manufactures press or roll these lighter marks in there cartridges and possibly for various reasons but you guys are lumping all these into cannelures and by definition that is not a cannelure like the OP posted a picture of. Quit trying to debund the original intent of the cannelures buy calling something it's not.
 
Quit trying to debund the original intent of the cannelures buy calling something it's not.
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Fact - it's already been established that there was no need to prevent setback in the revolver cases due to the fact that cannelured cases existed far before any guns existed that used those cartridges where any form of setback would be a concern.

Fact- In his 1937 essay on handloading, Phippip Sharpe stated that revolver cases that were loaded with both black powder and smokeless had a cannelure on the case to differentiate one from the other.

It sounds very much like you sir are the one trying to impose your suppositions.

Have a good day & life - I'm so tired of this topic.
I keep posting factual information & all that is used to rebut it is lots of pictures unrelated to the topic, supposition and empty claims based on opinions.
 
orionengnr said:
The .45LC is a seriously low-pressure cartridge.
The case on the left looks a little sketchy, but as long as you are firing it through a quality revolver, I think it will iron out and be okay.

Just don't double-triple-quadruple charge it (easy to do with a huge case and a low powder volume).
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P-3s FOREVER!!!! The ultimate sub-chaser.
 
Hal said:
Fact - it's already been established that there was no need to prevent setback in the revolver cases due to the fact that cannelured cases existed far before any guns existed that used those cartridges where any form of setback would be a concern.

Fact- In his 1937 essay on handloading, Phippip Sharpe stated that revolver cases that were loaded with both black powder and smokeless had a cannelure on the case to differentiate one from the other.

It sounds very much like you sir are the one trying to impose your suppositions.

Have a good day & life - I'm so tired of this topic.
I keep posting factual information & all that is used to rebut it is lots of pictures unrelated to the topic, supposition and empty claims based on opinions.
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I think you have posted a lot of things that you think are correct, but I also think Driftwood has forgotten more than you will ever know about this subject. I admit that I am Bloody ignorant on all of this, but thanks to Driftwood I have learned a lot.
 
I think you have posted a lot of things that you think are correct, but I also think Driftwood has forgotten more than you will ever know about this subject.
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I don't think they are correct - I know through research they are correct.
 
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