Framelock - What % is acceptable? Kersaw Leak & Chive vs CRKT M16-01 comparo

What is an acceptable minimum % of engagement for a frame lock?

The pic and a little info.

The CRKT: I very recently bought; actually 3 of them. (1 of the '01S' & 2 of the '01KS' models). All of them have similar % of lock up engagement. It may be harder to see in the pic w/ blk blade & blk frame but I'd say 95+% for all 3.

The Chive: I found about 10-12 yrs ago in a parking lot. It looked fairly new back then. I've flicked it open probably a few hundred times over the decade mostly just playing with it. It sat in the center counsel most of that time and occasionally pocketed & less actually used. I'd guess the % of lock up engagement is maybe 50%, at best.

The Onion I bought about 2-3 months ago out of state. It's been flicked open probably a couple hundred times already mostly playing with it; aka dodging the almost invisible scalpel like tip . I'd guess the % of lock up engagement is only maybe about 40%.

The Onion feels solid & I have put a fair amount force in it to see if it would slip and it hasn't yet, but what do I know.

So.... I come to the knowledgeable folks here for some learning time.

What is an acceptable minimum % of engagement for a frame lock? Is there an acceptable minimum % of engagement?

Note, I screawed up the names above but thankfully you guys knew what I was talking about.

greyling22 said:

The one on the left looks like too much. The other 2 look fine. But then, I've never had a knife close on me. I think worrying about engagement is overrated.

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The CRKT on the left is about perfect imo, but my knife expertise isn't enough to make my opinion super comforting.

The way/how the 2 surfaces mate on all 3 of the CRKT.... the result is great. At the bargain price of only $20 ea. they be my best buy for 2021. I just stumbled into finding them at that price whereas they seem to be selling in the $38 range.

I'll finally replace the Evo Jr I have that is worn and wobbles a little.

I'll look at the CRKTs again when I inspect the Leek better just to compare and learn the differences.

JohnKSa said:

Less concerned about how much engagement there is and more concerned with what the engagement looks like. If both surfaces are flat with good contact and not a lot of angle to the engagement surface, then it doesn't take much engagement to be as secure as you're ever going to be with a frame lock.

But even with a lot of engagement, if the surfaces are rounded off and/or with a lot of angle to the engagement surface and/or with uneven surfaces that aren't making good solid contact, then they are more likely to cam apart under pressure.

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Thanks John.
From the top view shown, the visable lower left corner of the blade side of the Leek looks (is) rounded but it is not like that all the way down the blade mating side - Or said another way, I think the mating surfaces on both are pretty flat with just that corner rounded.

I can push the Leak's frame lock in further and make it engage more... which should also hint that the surfaces are flat and not angled.

It takes a fair amount of pressure to push the frame lock into further engagement & it feels gritty when I do that so I thought it may just need time/use to smooth out but wanted to ask questions and learn.

The % amount of engagement is about equal to the thickness of the liner lock of an old EVO Jr. I have; maybe a 1/2 smidgen more.

But with your description of the mating surfaces fresh in my mind I'll be able to re-inspect with more knowledge & confidence than before.

I'll try to better inspect the flatness of the 2 sides today on the Leek. Hopefully I have the proper torx size handy to take off the clip to view it better.

hso said:

CRKT's addition of the LAWKS system is intended to permit a higher percentage of engagement so wear isn't as much of a factor or disengagement an issue.

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Could you expand on this for me?

My CRKT M16-01KS (and S) are frame locks.

On the CRKT, it doesn't mention the LAWKS on the frame lock M16s but does mention the ALS (automated locking system) on the liner locks - I think that the same as the LAWKS you mentioned. https://www.crkt.com/innovations#automated-liner-safety

I don't think it's a feature on the frame locks though - its only a feature on the liner locks from what I found....?


I wasn't really aware of the LAWKS system until you mentioned it so I did a quick search and came up with the above but I'm not sure I'm correct.


The way the blade tang mating surface is milled, the fame lock side can't possibly over engage.


Pics from CRKT site

1st pic is 01KS ( same as S model) and does match mine.

2nd pic is the 01KZ model that is a liner lock. It has the ALS which I think is the same as the LAWKS you mentione. My frame locks don't have that.


Is my understanding correct in that the ALS and LAWKS are the same and only on liner locks; but not frame locks?

hso said:

You're correct. They don't seem to have applied LAWKS to the frame locks as they have to the liner locks.

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Thanks for confirming.

Being the enabler you are, now that I know about it... I want one of those too.