Michigan School Shooting

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daverich4

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I don’t think I missed any threads on this and am a little surprised there hasn’t been one. Is the topic not allowed here? Thanks.
 
A great deal is still to come out about this, particularly on the actions of the parents. Not much to say just yet until the rest of it comes out.
 
daverich4 said:
I don’t think I missed any threads on this and am a little surprised there hasn’t been one. Is the topic not allowed here? Thanks.
Click to expand...
I mean, the topic is allowed. One would think that school shootings obviously fall into the "gun-related" category.

Either way, .455_Hunter is correct. A child was given access to firearms and training when they shouldn't have been, and now four people are dead. This entire problem could've been avoided if two things had happened:
1. The parents kept the gun in a safe that their child had no access to.
2. The school took the reports as seriously as possible and alerted law enforcement.

From what I've read, the child was reported by his peers to the school and the school didn't inform law enforcement.

Seems like the DA will have to charge a lot of school personnel though if they do the same to the parents... After all, "responsibility."
 
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To add to that, we prefer to focus on discussions where we can learn from the incident in one of two ways:

1. Strategy or tactics
2. Legal aspects

The fact that there has been a shooting does not automatically make an incident on topic at THR.

Closed until such time as a valid question or observation about this shooting surfaces.
 
I'm reopening this thread because there have been some legal developments brought to my attention by Elkins45:

Parents of Michigan shooting suspect face charges: What legal analysts say - CNN

The day of the shooting, a teacher noticed a disturbing drawing Ethan had made, including "a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words 'the thoughts won't stop help me,'" and a drawing of a bullet with "blood everywhere" written above it, McDonald said.

Then, when called in to the school's office and ordered to get counseling for their son, the couple did not try to determine the whereabouts of the gun, or whether their son had it with him that day, the prosecutor said. The parents "resisted" taking Ethan from school that day, and he returned to class.
An investigation found the gun was stored in an unlocked drawer in the parents' bedroom, McDonald said.
"They didn't even disclose it at that moment or check to see if their son had that weapon, or go right home and look to see where the weapon was.... We know that because right after the public being notified about an active shooter, Dad drives to his house, and it was for one reason: to look for that weapon. And finds it missing, and then makes a 911 call and says this gun is missing, and I think my son is the shooter,"
Click to expand...
 
The shooter put up a lot of Red Flags, that were ignored. The two incidents at school and other social media posts. The parents not only were irresponsible and negligent, but reading some of the released texts messages the Mom made to her son, could be interpreted as encouragement. Working for a school district and knowing the procedures taken when such threats are made, it's hard for me to believe the Police were not involved to discern whether or not there was a legitimate threat. While I think the criminal charges against the parents should and will stick, I doubt if there will be any legal repercussions for the school district. Very likely some civil action lawsuits and some staff loosing their jobs.
 
Thanks for opening this back up. I think it’s interesting the parents are being charged with something so serious. I wonder if that’s only because Michigan doesn’t have a safe storage law? I also wonder how long it will be before one is proposed? Although the kid is ultimately responsible for what he did I think it’s worth having a jury decide the degree to which the parents bear criminal responsibility.

Given that the police found them hiding in a basement you have to wonder if it isn’t a whole house full of loons. People like this are why we can’t have nice things.
 
Elkins45 said:
Thanks for opening this back up. I think it’s interesting the parents are being charged with something so serious. I wonder if that’s only because Michigan doesn’t have a safe storage law? I also wonder how long it will be before one is proposed? Although the kid is ultimately responsible for what he did I think it’s worth having a jury decide the degree to which the parents bear criminal responsibility.

Given that the police found them hiding in a basement you have to wonder if it isn’t a whole house full of loons. People like this are why we can’t have nice things.
Click to expand...

Granted that it's CNN, and they're a batch of hysterically ignorant cartoons, but assuming the facts are as they were reported, i.e. that he was drawing violent images that sure sound like school shooter fantasies, that he had been searching for ammunition online at school, and that his cumulative actions were concerning enough that the school administration called his parents to school the same day to discuss these facts, plus the fact that his parents bought the gun for him and then stored it in a completely unrestricted manner and didn't think it was worth putting two and two together about this unrestricted firearms access and a deeply disturbed child, it really does sound like they are at least morally culpable here. I don't know if the legal charges will stick, but this sure sounds like awful parenting, awful gun storage, and awful judgment.
 
buck460XVR said:
The shooter put up a lot of Red Flags, that were ignored. The two incidents at school and other social media posts. The parents not only were irresponsible and negligent, but reading some of the released texts messages the Mom made to her son, could be interpreted as encouragement. Working for a school district and knowing the procedures taken when such threats are made, it's hard for me to believe the Police were not involved to discern whether or not there was a legitimate threat. While I think the criminal charges against the parents should and will stick, I doubt if there will be any legal repercussions for the school district. Very likely some civil action lawsuits and some staff loosing their jobs.
Click to expand...
I think that school district is in for a world of hurt, financially.
 
The surprising thing about this whole incident is that both the Sheriff and the Prosecutor are not blaming guns in general. The Sheriff has said repeatedly that there are already plenty of gun laws -- they just need to be enforced. And the Prosecutor has prefaced all of her remarks by saying that the legal possession of guns is not the issue -- their criminal misuse is.

We may be seeing a sea change in the typical reaction to school shootings. I'm not seeing the gun grabbers getting any traction out of this at all.
 
Hmmm... a question as posed elsewhere:

“So in Michigan if YOUR 16yo A student, cheerleader captain, college bound daughter kills a a young pregnant mom and her 4 young tots while shes driving YOUR family mini van…do both YOU and YOUR WIFE get criminally charged and thrown in jail to await trial?”
 
kwguy said:
Hmmm... a question as posed elsewhere:

“So in Michigan if YOUR 16yo A student, cheerleader captain, college bound daughter kills a a young pregnant mom and her 4 young tots while shes driving YOUR family mini van…do both YOU and YOUR WIFE get criminally charged and thrown in jail to await trial?”
Click to expand...
If the parents of the cheerleader knew their daughter had expressed thoughts of intentionally crashing into another car, did nothing about it, and still allowed her use of their vehicle, it's a possibility.
 
buck460XVR said:
The shooter put up a lot of Red Flags, that were ignored. .....
Click to expand...
Yes he did and yes they were, but I cringe when I see the term used because of its obvious anti-gun legislative connections, and don't think you're being singled out, because the term was used by a conservative news channel (OAN) commentator, too. I just wish we, as a pro-gun community, could come up with a better term to identify signs and actions indicative of individuals that are at risk for committing some gun-related act of criminal violence.
 
kwguy said:
Hmmm... a question as posed elsewhere:

“So in Michigan if YOUR 16yo A student, cheerleader captain, college bound daughter kills a a young pregnant mom and her 4 young tots while shes driving YOUR family mini van…do both YOU and YOUR WIFE get criminally charged and thrown in jail to await trial?”
Click to expand...

This is not a good comparison for a whole host of reasons.
 
kwguy said:
Hmmm... a question as posed elsewhere:

“So in Michigan if YOUR 16yo A student, cheerleader captain, college bound daughter kills a a young pregnant mom and her 4 young tots while shes driving YOUR family mini van…do both YOU and YOUR WIFE get criminally charged and thrown in jail to await trial?”
Click to expand...

It depends. Was the 16yo licensed to drive and allowed to use the vehicle, or was she allowed to drive the vehicle without a license and given the keys to it by her parents?? Was she cited in school by two teachers because of her behavior? We’re the parents called in because of her behavior and under-reacted to it?
 
For those who have not followed the progress, after the parents were charged. they withdrew $4,000 fro a bank account and went into hiding. Sheriffs deputies found and arrested them early in the AM. They were arraigned hours later, pleaded not guilty, and bail was set at $500,000 each. That was an expensive gun.
 
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