Is 5 or 6 really enough in today's world.
- Thread starter 357smallbore
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Observations:
1. Buddy was a Calif Hyw Patrol officer for 20 years. Arrested drunks and stopped bad drivers. Tells me that he only used his firearm once to put an injured dog out of its misery.
2. I have travelled extensively, both in the military and as a civilian to Turkey, Italy, France, Mexico, the UK and the USA (including Los Angeles, Chicago and St. Louis. Almost never went to questionable areas at those locations. Never had to use a firearm against terrorists or bad guys. (disclaimer) Did flash a knife when a pedicab driver was going in the wrong direction.
3. I am now 83 and no one in my family or my friends have had to use a firearm for self protection (except for two who were stationed in Vietnam in special ops).
4. I now live in California. I have had a CCW for the past 8 years only because I can, not because I need to.
5. When I see a questionable situation, I leave, and call the police. That's their job. Since I am not a LEO I do not go charging into a situation like the young man mentioned earlier in this thread.
6. I hope to continue with this behavior pattern and make 93.
7. How many of the posters to this thread have, as civilians, had to draw a firearm for self protection against bad guys?
1. Buddy was a Calif Hyw Patrol officer for 20 years. Arrested drunks and stopped bad drivers. Tells me that he only used his firearm once to put an injured dog out of its misery.
2. I have travelled extensively, both in the military and as a civilian to Turkey, Italy, France, Mexico, the UK and the USA (including Los Angeles, Chicago and St. Louis. Almost never went to questionable areas at those locations. Never had to use a firearm against terrorists or bad guys. (disclaimer) Did flash a knife when a pedicab driver was going in the wrong direction.
3. I am now 83 and no one in my family or my friends have had to use a firearm for self protection (except for two who were stationed in Vietnam in special ops).
4. I now live in California. I have had a CCW for the past 8 years only because I can, not because I need to.
5. When I see a questionable situation, I leave, and call the police. That's their job. Since I am not a LEO I do not go charging into a situation like the young man mentioned earlier in this thread.
6. I hope to continue with this behavior pattern and make 93.
7. How many of the posters to this thread have, as civilians, had to draw a firearm for self protection against bad guys?
Hangingrock
Member
My handgun experience started at MCRD Parris Island SC in 1964 followed by Viet-Nam 1965-66. All these decades later I have a concealed carry permit issued by my state of residence. Most individuals I've meant meet the mandated requirements by their state of residence and don't go beyond the basic reequipments for a concealed carry permit.
A few years ago I got my CCW, and about the same time I started shooting some IDPA and steel plate matches (along with bullseye. )
That’s when I figured 6 shots wasn’t enough for me. Just the stress of competition made me rush and miss shots.
Before that I always considered myself a pretty good shot, compared to other guys I shot with.
That’s when I figured 6 shots wasn’t enough for me. Just the stress of competition made me rush and miss shots.
Before that I always considered myself a pretty good shot, compared to other guys I shot with.
trackskippy
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Everything that has happened in the past is basically meaningless. Tomorrow is a reset, and a whole new day, and even in what you might think is the safest place in the world, you have absolutely no idea what will happen next until it does.
And if and when that one unfortunate moment in time arrives, you've diligently done your best to be prepared for it, right? That is what this is all about and why you carry a gun, right?
Another component is the amount / duration of potential exposure.
Some unannounced excursions are so quick it serves to limit risk.
Walking the dog around the block and promptly returning home?
Randomly taking out garbage / recyclables to the barn or curbside?
Some unannounced excursions are so quick it serves to limit risk.
Walking the dog around the block and promptly returning home?
Randomly taking out garbage / recyclables to the barn or curbside?
What's the question? I walked miles everyday while living in downtown Chicago and attending college there. Never once carried or needed a gun. I currently walk many miles on a weekly basis in an urban environment and have never once needed any gun at any point in the last 20 years.
So you’re saying you don’t cc or believe it’s necessary?
My point about walking distance is the premise that you only need a hand gun to get back to your long gun, or remove yourself from a dangerous situation.
JTQ
Member
I think that is some of the desire for extra ammo - shooting competition.
Lets face it, almost none of us ever draw a pistol on anybody, but in a shooting game, that a lot of us play, there is never just one target, there are several. When you realize you have to engage several targets, and only have 5 or 6 shots, your math problem changes. I think if nobody ever played those games, the math number may be different for many.
Old Dog
Member
I was kinda gonna try and abstain from posting in this thread, since we've only done it about eleventy-seven time over the past nineteen years...
All I have to say is that, in every case - that I am familiar with - in which a law-abiding citizen has deployed their concealed carry handgun in defense of one or more armed assailants , AND shots were fired by the citizen - the citizen typically did not fire more than two or three shots.
That does not mean I'm comfortable with a five-shot J-frame as my only on-person firearm. As I've been in the presence of someone struck by lightning and once had nice winning lottery ticket, I still subscribe to the notion (oft mentioned here) that it's not the odds, it's the stakes.
Also, I have never, ever heard a case where a civilian, outside of his residence, utilized a handgun to "fight his way back to his long gun." I thought the premise was a civilian concealed carrier (out and about conducting normal citizen routines), not a cop who's got his patrol carbine and a shotgun mounted in his cruiser..
All I have to say is that, in every case - that I am familiar with - in which a law-abiding citizen has deployed their concealed carry handgun in defense of one or more armed assailants , AND shots were fired by the citizen - the citizen typically did not fire more than two or three shots.
That does not mean I'm comfortable with a five-shot J-frame as my only on-person firearm. As I've been in the presence of someone struck by lightning and once had nice winning lottery ticket, I still subscribe to the notion (oft mentioned here) that it's not the odds, it's the stakes.
Also, I have never, ever heard a case where a civilian, outside of his residence, utilized a handgun to "fight his way back to his long gun." I thought the premise was a civilian concealed carrier (out and about conducting normal citizen routines), not a cop who's got his patrol carbine and a shotgun mounted in his cruiser..
I didn't understand the question... And I still don't... Who in the real world fights their way to a rifle and then returns to the situation?
The number of scenarios where someone needs a firearm with more than 6 rounds is so small it is basically unmeasurable. Even people who are adamant it's necessary cannot come up with one actual, real life, self defense scenario that helps their cause.
While living and going to college in Chicago it was not feasible to carry a firearm nor did I even own any handguns at that time.
Exposure greatly influences the likelihood that a use of force incident will occur.
There is no reason to expect it to influence what will be required once it occurs.
What movie was this from? There is a guy with a clapper-board in the front right just by the cameras and boom mikes.
WrongHanded
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Let us imagine for a moment, that revolvers did not exist. That only semi-auto pistols were available for concealed carry and self protection out in the world.
Anyone still advocating for just 5 or 6 rounds of capacity now?
Anyone still advocating for just 5 or 6 rounds of capacity now?
2ndtimer
Member
All of the data, satistics, news reports, and epidemic of the millions of gun owners who EDC small to compact revolvers, 1911s, single stack 40s&w and 45acp, and mouse/pocket guns over the last dozens of decades up until today who ran out of ammo and were found dead next to their empty 5 to 6 shooter leads me to believe all the internet "what ifs" and fearfongering are completely valid, credible, and well thought out.. How can anyone argue otherwise!
Look at the hundreds of examples of civilians being killed because they ran out of ammo while being attacked my drug cartels, gangs, drug dealers, a wolf pack of thugs, terrorist armed with explosive vest and full auto AK47s, and scariest of all, BLM! Clearly the data shows 5 to 6 shots isn't enough.. At least not in the vivid imaginations of those on the internet. Anyone not carrying, at the very least, the magic arbitrary number of 10 rounds in their EDC CLEARLY has a deaf wish.
View attachment 1127327
While it's true that violent crime is still relatively at an all time low, that doesn't really matter. What matters is news reporting and internet jargon about violent crime is at an all time high! The record number of obsessive compulsive reporting and daily fixation on crime is clear indisputable evidence that 5 to 6 rounds isn't enough because of the historic 24/7 365 rapid rate of crime (reporting). Y'all safe out there! I heard on the internet that the end of the world is coming and it's a free for all in the once safe streets of America.
Nationwide numbers are interesting but like real estate, local numbers are what matters most to individuals. Here are my county’s numbers:
https://www.co.benton.wa.us/pview.aspx?id=3984&catid=0
Note from 2008 to 2020 the yearly maximum number of homicides was 6. In 2021 it climbed to 9, and in 2022 we had 20. I decided that my 5 shot SP-101 .357 Mag might not be enough and since our state recently decided law abiding citizens should be limited to 10 round capacity magazines (while criminals will carry whatever they can buy in other states or steal), I purchased a Glock 48.
If you don't think that you'll ever need a firearm, then the reasonable response is not to carry one. It doesn't make sense to say you won't ever need one and then carry one--you can save the time and trouble and just go without.
If you decide you really do want to carry a firearm, then that decision is over with--now you're moving on to the next decision. You don't need to keep rehashing whether or not you'll really need a firearm--you've already decided that you are going to carry one to be prepared.
Now you decide what "prepared" means to you and try to make sure that you and your firearm have the capability to deal with the situations you want to have a chance of handling.
You can think about whether you only want to prepare for an attacker who will run when he sees the gun or hears it being fired. This makes preparation simple. You need to be able to draw and fire once, but you don't need to hit anything. You don't even really need to carry live ammunition if you don't want to take the risk of an unintentional discharge. It doesn't make a difference what gun you carry or what its capacity is as long as you can get it out reasonably quickly and make it go 'bang' once.
You could decide to prepare for only one determined attacker. Since people miss when they are under high stress and it typically takes more than one pistol round to neutralize someone, it would make sense to carry a firearm with more than 2 rounds since you would need to be sure of never missing if you want to score more than one hit. Now you will need to be able to draw and fire the pistol accurately and get multiple rounds on target even while being shot at. With a 5 round capacity and typical LE gunfight hit rate, you'd have less than a 50% chance of making a couple of hits before the gun runs out. Going up to 10 rounds would give you about an 85% chance of success before you run dry.
And it goes on from there.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
People can go years without a face to face criminal confrontation, maybe even a lifetime. Sounds like your college years went by pretty easy in that regard.
My tech school years in Waco, Texas (riding back to Houston when I could afford the bus fare) . . . well, let's just say the entire experience wasn't that rosy. Some of my dorm mates were ex-cons on a prison "rehab" plan. I got myself held up at gunpoint in my dorm building by 3 young ladies from who knows where. Most students with cars went home for the weekend, but us "pedestrian" students would be left with the weirdness that sometimes crept in from the surrounding areas. Always drug related it seemed. But I was young (20 to 22 years old) and I could ruuuuuun fast and far, since I was a soccer player back then.
Then there is the weird criminal crap that goes down in the Texas cities I travel to for work on normal workdays while out doing service calls. The robberies, the break ins, the thefts, street extortion (my term), you name it. Being that most of my work tends to be in industrial areas with poor parts of town nearby, it's all pretty damn normal unfortunately. Plus I'm a month away from being 58 and I can't outrun a fit person in their 20s, not to mention that I'm pulling a cart with at least 80 pounds of tools on it every time. Which is why I hate doing jobs in downtown environments, because I don't get to park where I have to do the work.
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
I remember a moderator here at THR that reminded us to never tell on the internet about drawing a gun on another person. So, I'd guess that the civilian members here that have had to do so will be pretty tight lipped about it.
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Corpral_Agarn
Member
It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
If I am going to be forced into combat to protect my wife and/or son, I'm not opting for a 5 shot revolver.
If you knew you would be forced into a life and death situation with an unknown number of variables, what CCW would you pick?
Carry that one.
If I am going to be forced into combat to protect my wife and/or son, I'm not opting for a 5 shot revolver.
If you knew you would be forced into a life and death situation with an unknown number of variables, what CCW would you pick?
Carry that one.
Tinman357
Member
Yes. I believe 5 or 6 is enough. Until it isn't. Murphy loves toying with me and is in awe of the ease and deft maneuvering that I perform to resolve the trickery he bestows on me. He apparently has taken my defiance as a challenge and has launched an all out war against me to test my creativity and endurance. 
So, I just assume that 5/6 won't be if/when that moment comes.
Although, I have recently stepped down from several standard capacity 9mm's to an 8+1 .45acp. But, I also carry 6 8rd spare mags and practice enough to change mags fast.
I guess I'm doing alright. The 1911 is the one I shoot the fastest and most accurately. It's also the one I'm most comfortable with. Though I've always kept my revolver skills honed.
Now, all that said, I live in the increasingly restrictive state of WA. Magazines wear out/break and are generaly considered to have a shorter lifespan than the pistol itself. I have a limited supply so I opt to use them sparingly. For the moment, they can't be replaced. While I actively fought against the recent mag ban, I really didn't think it would pass. Polls stated that roughly 2000 supported the ban, 15,000+ spoke out against it. So I didn't buy into the panic and load up on magazines. It passed despite the overwhelming numbers against it. Yet more proof the current state government ignores the will of the people and does what it wants.
So I have been growing my revolver collection and making time to get well practiced with them again. Reloading with speedloaders is getting comfortably fast enough, for me.
Is 5/6 enough? Not for me personally. But there may come a time that it's the only option I have, as long as Inslee and his ilk have the power and remain as corrupt as they are. They blatantly and openly violate the oaths of office, the state and US Constitutions daily, no one bats an eye.
One day, 5 or 6 may be all I have.
So, I just assume that 5/6 won't be if/when that moment comes.Although, I have recently stepped down from several standard capacity 9mm's to an 8+1 .45acp. But, I also carry 6 8rd spare mags and practice enough to change mags fast.
I guess I'm doing alright. The 1911 is the one I shoot the fastest and most accurately. It's also the one I'm most comfortable with. Though I've always kept my revolver skills honed.
Now, all that said, I live in the increasingly restrictive state of WA. Magazines wear out/break and are generaly considered to have a shorter lifespan than the pistol itself. I have a limited supply so I opt to use them sparingly. For the moment, they can't be replaced. While I actively fought against the recent mag ban, I really didn't think it would pass. Polls stated that roughly 2000 supported the ban, 15,000+ spoke out against it. So I didn't buy into the panic and load up on magazines. It passed despite the overwhelming numbers against it. Yet more proof the current state government ignores the will of the people and does what it wants.
So I have been growing my revolver collection and making time to get well practiced with them again. Reloading with speedloaders is getting comfortably fast enough, for me.
Is 5/6 enough? Not for me personally. But there may come a time that it's the only option I have, as long as Inslee and his ilk have the power and remain as corrupt as they are. They blatantly and openly violate the oaths of office, the state and US Constitutions daily, no one bats an eye.
One day, 5 or 6 may be all I have.
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aaaaa
Member
We could make poll for that provided the selections can't be traced. Since one can go back and change their vote in polls on this site, I suspect they can be traced.
WrongHanded
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You just gave a few members an aneurism.
Haha!
Revolvers are what I started with, and carried for a long time. But they're also a huge part of the hidden reason for threads like this.
We aren't hearing many people saying "Why should I load more than 6 rounds into my G19? 6 is enough!"
Another way to put it would be: If your revolver has a 10 round capacity, would you only load 5? Simple answer is no.
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