How easy is it to actually take away a firearm?

"She probably thinks that, once disarmed and no longer under the gun's evil mental mind control powers, her assailant will sit down with her and do yoga while sipping dandelion tea."
I reckon you're right - and I wish they'd never made all those goofy martial arts movies. I'm afraid that there's an awful lot of people that think thataways. :banghead:

I just love people who say that there is no need for a firearm in self defense. They always say that they can learn a martial art and defend themselves.

I say bullcrap! That takes a level of dedication that very few people are able to maintain. Just learning a few moves and holds one afternoon at the gym and expecting to get a lifetime of self defense out of it is a joke.

I say, if that is what they want to depend on to save their hide, that's great. To each his/her own.

However, don't use that argument to deprive those people who aren't in as wonderful physical shape the right to protect themselves. I have trained tons of handicapped and elderly people who do not have martial arts training as an option. There are lot of other people who don't have the time to maintian the level of training you need. Do these people not deserve options to defend themselves?

SC

This happens to the police.....

because they have to be in close proximity to the bad guy. They have to search and cuff a BG for example. A robber has to be in close proximity to his victim so they are more vulnerable to this too. The only time I have heard or seen this happen is when the BG does something stupid like put his gun on a counter to reach for the money. I've seen store clerks then grab the gun and turn it on the BG. Doesn't happen often though and I wouldn't try it without some stupid mistake by the BG.

It's harder than it initially seems.

More or less goofing around, I've tried this with airsoft pistols to quite an extent. I use it with an unloaded spring gun as a demonstration to the "he'll just take my gun away and use it on me" sort of people, often letting them hold the gun, while I, Mr. Ninja, try to take it away from them without the piston going "pop!" when the trigger gets pulled.

I've seen and heard the "push the slide back" trick and done it once or twice successfully - On airsoft pistols. I've tried it informally with my PX4 and it's not easy because the recoil spring on a real gun is a lot heavier and there ain't much to grab on the front end of that gun. Obviously, these tricks wouldn't work at all on a revolver.

Also remember that guns are big heavy metal objects, and it's not too much of a stretch to whang someone upside the head with your slide as they make a grab for your gun, knock back, and then shoot them.

I know that the martial art Krav Maga trains disarms... but in every single case i've seen the person is standing right next to you. So i guess if you want to do this, you'll first have to ask the attacker politely to stand right next to you and hold the gun a certain way.

I learned techniques for disarming someone that had either a handgun or a knife when I was working on my black belt.

It *can* be done. The fact is that if the person hasn't already shot you and is close enough for you to reach the firearm, you have a decent shot with training.

The key is that you are initiating action and the handgun holder has to react to you. Regardless of how fact the reflexs of the other person is, they cannot escape the reality that you cannot physically react fast enough to effectively avoid the disarmament. This is based on our physiology and how the brain processes information.

That said,


If you hesitate in the SLIGHTEST, you give the gunholder plenty of time to process information and take action. If you do not have your technique trained as second nature, you will meet similar results. You don't get to have a do-over if you are rusty on it.


That said,


Only an idiot EVER pulls a gun and gets within arms reach of his intented target or extends the arm fully that close to a target. I was always taught that if you had to be too close to a person, you want to position yourself where your handgun hand is towards the rear and you have an open hand forward.

This allows you to maneuver if the target DOES attempt something. It allows you more reaction time. It makes it much more difficult to disarm YOU.

However, I repeat this. You don't want to be in arms reach of someone if you are the one with the handgun if at all possible.

You don't want to pull a handgun unless you are in a positon to use it-- although I do understand if you have dealt with something like a break-in and you are waiting for the police to arrive.



I used to go to a lot of martial arts training seminars. One I went to was lead by Bill "Superfoot" Wallace-- a kickboxing champion from the Golden Era of Kickboxing. As expected, there was that one person in the crowd that asks him what he would do if someone pulled a gun on him.

His anwer was classic:


"If they shoot me, I am going to bleed. If I bleed too much, I am going to die."

He went on to explain that martial arts is not some super-secret ninja skills where you can suddenly deflect bullets. He said to think of it as one tool on a swiss army knife. There will be tools for each task, and hand-to-hand is often the one of last resort.



John

I can do it from "arms length". If done correctly it also breaks his trigger finger.

It's possible. We spent many hours in the gym practicing various techniques. No hesitation, you have to be in his OODA loop. Any hesitation, you're gonna die. And it's not over until he/she/it is in cuffs or getting stuffed in the bag.

We've played with it in my training group. As others have noted, your odds go up significantly if the guy with the gun gets within arm's reach and doesn't have any training on how to retain a pistol. I'd rather disarm a pistol than a knife any ol' day. That said, I'd prefer having to deal with neither occasion, because if you're the person stuck with disarming, you have to get it right, whereas the ding dong you're trying to get the gun away from only has to get lucky.

I've got about two years of hardcore martial arts training under my belt, to include a goodly amount of weapons work, and disarms are still difficult. I only know a few people who make them look "easy," and those guys are VERY advanced practitioners.

There are only two places to be if somebody's got a gun and they want to use it on you. All over 'em like a cheap suit, or WAY far away/behind hard cover.

I thought taking away a firearm was pretty much gun lore BS. Had a guy in our gun store that knew what he was doing.

If you held a gun out at arm's length with one hand, there's no way in hell you were going to hold on to it if he wanted it. Period.

IIRC, he rolled it around in the direction of the shooters fingers. Take a Glock, 1911, etc, and hold it in normal fashion. If an 8 year old grabs the forward end of the slide and twists around against your grip, you're gonna lose. Leverage and all that.

Now, would it be the first thing I'd want to try?? Hell, no. But if you've got no choice, it's as good a bet as any.

Has to be fast and precise, but you're gonna lose if he's good and you hesitate. After seeing it, I'd never try to hold someone at gunpoint within 5-8 feet. If I feel I have to draw, I'm gonna make good.

I am a pacifist. We do not own a gun and I doubt ever will. I think there are other ways to defend yourself. I am planning on taking a self defensive class soon and hope to learn to disarm someone that has a gun.

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Soon to be a proud winner of the Darwin awards.

Disarms work best with somebody who doesn't, deep down, want to shoot you. Otherwise, the first you know about it is when they've already begun shooting.

this question is why I love this poster by Oleg...

I am a pacifist. We do not own a gun and I doubt ever will. I think there are other ways to defend yourself. I am planning on taking a self defensive class soon and hope to learn to disarm someone that has a gun.

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I too, am a pacifist, until someone dares to cross the boundary where they pose an imminent life-threatening danger to either me or my loved ones. I have never started a fight, someone could swear at me all day and I wouldn't react except to move away from that person and ignore them, I've even been known to forgive a few punches to the face if they stop and seem to get that I can and will hurt them if they continue.

Criminals feed upon their power over others, and they are out there. A gun pointed at them is just as effective as physically subduing such an individual, in some respects more so(Though I've never had to do it myself, and hope I never will.), the only thing more effective is avoiding a confrontation altogether. Me being 5'10" and 210, I have the strength to hold my own if I need to, but for the elderly and disabled, guns act as an equalizer, and for them it is the only real option for self defense.

As for disarming an individual with a gun, as JWarren said, only an IDIOT would get that close unless it was pressed to your back, in that case you would have no chance if he intended to kill you if you resisted.

As long as you are within arms reach it is quite easy. It is taught in police academy's and military training for some. The whole issue is not messing your pants when it happens.

MOST all of the martial arts teach disarming. It is in fact very easy to do. BUT...YOU MUST TRAIN for it (as we do with our guns) till it is second nature. Not to mention tho....I know for a fact that Tie Kwon Do not only teaches you to disarm, but as soon as you disarm you shoot the dumb @$**) with his own gun. ......dis arm and shoot (or stab if using a knife) in one fliud motion. As i said, it is very easy with training.

My mom has been married to 2 intructors....first was third degree Jackass..oops I meant blk belt.... second was forth degree

Simple, I'll just take away his gun like he would if I had it. . . . Oh, only badguys have that ability? Well what if I take it back from him after he takes it from me? The badguy has supergrip you say? Hmm.....Well then I gue..POCKET CHIHUAHAU SHISHISHISHA! -Throws a overweight chihuahua at the badguy-.

Ok all joking aside I'm sure it's possible.

P.S. I am not crazy.

Any form of physical force or violence is against the principle of pacifism. The person who said that obviously is ignorant of what a pacifist truly is. It doesn't matter what form of force is used, whether it is a rolled up newspaper bare hands, or a nuclear warhead. They all violate the principle of a pacifist.

Now that we have established that thist individual is NOT a pacifist, we can look at how to answer this individual's question. If this individual refuses a weapon out of hoplophobia then she will need to overcome this fear or else be ruled by it when a weapon presents itself against her. If she is afraid to use a weapon because she is afraid of hurting someone who wishes her harm, then unarmed self-defense is also not for her. You can't hold back against a motivated attacker when your life depends on it.

The martial arts is not some magic weapon that is just handed to you. It requires the proper mindset which this individual lacks and refuses to adopt. Therefore I think all it would serve for her is a form of exercise.

She is obviously unprepared for such a scenario and is unwilling to prepare herself. If she wishes to remain this way there is no hope for her other than to call 911 and then comply fully with the intruder and hope for the best.

unless it was pressed to your back, in that case you would have no chance if he intended to kill you if you resisted.

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Beg pardon, but I disagree with you here. It's possible and it's trainable. but most people are not going to put that much effort and time into training for that. Paraphrasing one of my defensive tactics instructors: At contact distance you have the initiative. If you don't hesitate or telegraph, your action is going to take place before his reaction, ie get your body out of the way and check his elbow. It's one of those things you have to think about in a eighth of a second, do I comply with the guy or do I feed him his lunch.

Bill Jordan used to do a demonstration where he would have a deputy hold him at gunpoint. He could typically draw from concealment and fire before the deputy could squeeze off a round.

IMO, the whole thing is instinct in knowing what you're going to do rather than thinking about what you want to do and then trying to do it.

As a pacifist, you won't fight back, just lay on your back and put your paws up. The world will be plenty happy to kick you.

There is a whole system of action and thought that is applied to weapons takeaways. It helps if you understand the limitations and ways to increase your odds prior to taking something like this on. Someone else said it. It is not learned in one class setting.

Jim

I've done this one a couple of times with folks in martial arts.

I used an airsoft in both instances.

They'd say they could take a gun from anyone and i'd call them on it. Grab an airsoft and say go ahead.

I'd let them get their mitts good and wrapped around it then i'd squeeze the trigger.

My point 8/10 times was made pretty quickly.

Like correia says, "As long as the aren't shooting at you"