How easy is it to actually take away a firearm?

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ARperson

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While the other person is holding it? And not get shot?

I'm assuming for the sake of argument that the person holding the firearm is going to be stupid enough to let another person within arms' distance, though why someone would is beyond me.

Here's the quote that prompted my question:

I am a pacifist. We do not own a gun and I doubt ever will. I think there are other ways to defend yourself. I am planning on taking a self defensive class soon and hope to learn to disarm someone that has a gun.

I nearly peed my pants upon reading this, especially when you take into consider that the author is female, has no knowledge of firearms, and in her own words is against violence.

But short of super-ninja training and the like, what is the likelihood that the average soccer mom could accomplish this?
 
If they are within 3-4 feet it is possible and with the right training I would say prob. pretty doable. Outside of that- you gonna get shot
 
I've seen what adrenaline can do first hand; if someone is focused enough and hell bent on survival, they may even be able to get shot and still wrestle the gun away from a perp. The human body is capable of amazing things.

That being said, I truly think it's about will to survive and the proper mindset. I've learned techniques to disarm someone with a gun when facing me, or if they're behind me. But if you go into that 'analysis-paralysis' mode while confronted, all your training and technique means squat.
 
But short of super-ninja training and the like, what is the likelihood that the average soccer mom could accomplish this?

It's easy. That's why cops don't carry guns either :rolleyes:
What's she going to do after she gets the gun somehow (like that'll happen anyway)? Or is that as far as she thought?
 
Don't understand why it's okay to use your Ninjitsu/karate/whatever skills to beat somebody up, but a gun is off-limits. Don't see how pacifism allows you to train yourself to stomp someone's windpipe, but using a gun is verboten. :scrutiny:

I understand that a lot of criminals practice disarms and other tactics while in prison. They may know what to look for in a disarm. If so, it may just get you shot faster (using anti logic here).

It's possible to do a successful disarm if you've got the right training, luck, and have worked at it. I think strambo knows a good bit about disarms and similar tactics.
 
What's she going to do after she gets the gun somehow (like that'll happen anyway)? Or is that as far as she thought?

Well, I would have nailed her on this question, but later in her post she actually had some legit questions about children and firearms in the home, safety, etc. I chose to respond to those questions instead of the obvious glaring issues she would face once she became proficient at her new trade of pacifist disarmer.

I guess I just have serious qualms about a single defense class, necessarily geared towards the lowest common denominator (read: soccer mom with an abhorrence towards guns and violence), being able to teach someone how to do it.

Mitigating circumstances such as adrenaline and the desire to stay alive notwithstanding, somehow I don't see this gal doing anything but what the perp says.

Oh, well. Just curious. And to think she could save herself the trouble and just have a firearm for self defense.:rolleyes:
 
Have to be close, gunman has to be distracted and not know how to counter you, you have to be fast and strong, you have to have the committment to train at a very high level in technique and your conditioning. You cannot learn this in one seminar.

Qin na against weapons is very tough (I've got the scars from qin na on knives to prove it). Even tougher when doing it against distance weapons such as firearms.
 
Taking away a firearm when the opponent has it in retention is even more difficult.
 
Don't understand why it's okay to use your Ninjitsu/karate/whatever skills to beat somebody up, but a gun is off-limits. Don't see how pacifism allows you to train yourself to stomp someone's windpipe, but using a gun is verboten.

Well, if we're talking about the woman the OP is, she probably doesn't want to "stomp someone's windpipe". She probably thinks that, once disarmed and no longer under the gun's evil mental mind control powers, her assailant will sit down with her and do yoga while sipping dandelion tea.

As for other people, I'm not sure. Most serious practitioners that I know aren't anti-gun at all, recognizing the fact that firearm proficiency is just another facet of martial arts.
 
Taking guns away is super dooper easy, as long as they aren't shooting you...
 
I bet it's pretty hard, actually. Recently a number of female friends took a self-defense class. I asked them to show me some of the stuff they learned, and volunteered to play the attacker, and said that I was willing to be hit, thrown, etc. I am 5'8", 200 lbs (mostly muscle), play rugby, and am a pretty big, strong, physical guy. When I "attacked them" and they put the lessons they had learned into practice, it didn't even phase me. Their attempts to do things like throw my arms off them or get out of my grasp just really didn't work. (I think it disillusioned some of them.)

The adrenaline of a real-life situation can't be replicated, and I'm willing to count that as an added source of power, but I was underimpressed with what they had been taught, and certainly think that I could have held onto a handgun through their attempts.

-Josh

P.S. I told them the same thing I told my gf about unarmed self-defense: There's a vertical line that runs down the body vertically. In that line, you have the forehead, nose, mouth, adam's apple, solar plexus, and genitalia, all of which hurt like hell when hit. Hit anywhere along that line as hard as you can, and there will be results.
 
I agree with the above posts. I don't think she has thought it all the way through regarding what she will do IF (very BIG if) she is able to take the gun. Maybe she will lecture him about "gun violence." However, if she can take a simple self defense course and take the gun away because it is easy, what keeps the criminal from taking it right back. Maybe if they keep taking it away from each other the aforementioned criminal will get bored and just leave.:rolleyes:

I know their are many, many on this board much better trained and experienced than who I think would agree. I have a fairly strong martial arts background and I sure as heck don't want to be in a situation where I have to take on a gun, knife, big stick, etc. unarmed. If the situation does arise, an all out offense is the only way to go. Once again, mindset makes all the difference. I pray the woman mentioned above is never in a situation where she tries to disarm a gun-wielding attacker.
 
Reminds me of my CCW class last Sat, the instructor was showing pros and cons of different guns.

He explained the ultra simple design of the revolver, you can hold it any which way and shoot it, there's no slide to worry about, FTFeed issues, stove pipes, tap/rack/bang drills, etc. just keep pulling the trigger and it goes bang, if it doesn't go bang, pull the trigger again, and it will probably go bang the next time, etc.

Whereas there are certain issues if you train w/ a semi-auto to practice to make sure if you're under fire you can handle a problem. Then he went on to show some other things about certain models. So there happened to be a guy in the class w/ the certain model berretta (or knock off, not sure) that was like the one in the Jackie Chan movie where he disarms Chris Tucker by completely removing the slide w/ one quick action, and the instructor did the same thing. It was cool, coz I didn't know there was a particular weapon w/ that vulnerability, I thought it was just tv magic.

Then he asked what people thought was the most reliable semi closest to the revolver, etc., some said glock, he knows I have a glock, we're all unloaded and double checked unloaded at this point btw, and he asks me to hold the weapon in a ready position over his shoulder pointing behind him, and pushes on the slide taking it out of battery and tells me to pull the trigger, and of course no click. I don't know how many semi's that works on, I would assume a lot, but I noticed on one of the shooting shows last night they actually had a rail attachment that blocked the front of the slide/barrel to prevent this very thing. Then he asked what would happen if someone put their hand in front of a revolver and you pulled the trigger (if you don't know, it would put a big hole their hand!).

He admittedly carried semi-autos, but was pointing out the benefits of a revolver for some users.

So, to recap on a serious note, like others have said, there are tactics either mechanically disable a weapon, or physical maneuvers one could use to protect their weapon, or potentially disarm another, but it will all depend on your knowledge and PRACTICE of them, and the opponents knowledge and practice of similar or counter moves.

And I would bet that in an armed defensive position distance is your friend, but if you're unarmed you might have a better chance to confront him at close range, unless you can stay really far away and he's not the greatest shot. In any case, I'm betting a lot of luck and divine intervention has a lot to do w/ survival for the avg citizen in that case, and that non violent person would have to take some serious training to rely on disarming a suspect while unarmed, good luck w/ that. I want to take some other training w/ and w/out firearms, but I still want the firearm :D

And she should seriously think about taking some firearms classes and read some too, even though she doesn't like guns, at least she could become moderately knowledgeable, and be able to tell the difference whether some guns are loaded, at slide lock, what the suspect would have to do to reload, or some other vulnerability, so that she would know when to take action, if there was a choice, since timing in an attempt to disarm someone while unarmed may be a critical factor, she should learn more about guns, IMO (maybe she'd decide one wasn't bad to have around after that education too!)

Karz
 
It could POSSIBLY be done by the "Martial Artiste", but I tend to think that they are more likely going to end up as a bullet trap.

I had done a couple of "dis-arms" way back yonder, but I was lucky in that I found just the right time...BG was distracted, looking elsewhere, etc....well that and a 12" cast-iron skillet upside the BG's head...........

:what: :evil: :what: :evil: :what:
 
Sorry I'm not on topic. But this has to be one of the funniest lines I've read all week.

"Easy. I seen it on the internets"

That rivels the I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express line.
 
I have been trained...

three different ways to take a gun away from a person. They need to be in arm's reach, like they portray an assailant in movies and tv. If they are out of reach, so sorry. Prime example why I carry two guns all the time......chris3
 
If someone is dumb enough to let you get close enough to grab his firearm then there is a greater probability that he is not smart enough to keep from getting disarmed. However,distance is also your friend if you have no gun. How much practice does the usual bad guy have with his weapon. Not the colombine sort of practice but real frontsight trigger press type of practice. Can you say RUN. In some instances it might be wise to throw something at the atacker and run. Even if it means jumping out of a 2nd floor window. There is no definitive answer. The best super Ninja fresh from Japan could not disarm a trained person with a firearm at anything over 5 feet away. That is given that the gun is ready and aimed. I do not think we will ever know what was the exact situtation in those rooms. Maybe they will find some tried to resist from the wound patterns but I would not count on that infornmation getting out.

len
 
Haha those You Tube vids remind me of Rex-Kwon-Do on Napoleon Dynamite.
"Grab my arm...no the other arm...MY other arm..."
 
Sounds like a good way to get shot or die.

Gun shop we went to when i was a youngster was owned by a guy that had been a fast draw champ. He always had a gun on his hip. We ask him one time, " hey Bob could you get a guy first if he came in your shop and had a gun pointed at you"? His answer was "I am sure I could shoot him but odds are he would get one off too". So this guy is gonna learn kungwongtakegun and disarm people? Sounds like a death wish to me.

Brought back a old memory from a long time ago and far away. A old friend of mine disarmed a guy that had came into a bar with a shotgun and was threating people. But that was with a pool cue from behind so I doubt that counts with what this guy is gonna learn. he he
 
How much training do you need to smack someone in the head with a chair? How about throw a book? Hey, if you are going to get shot anyway, try to ruin his day too! Forget all this ninja karate stuff! Two or three people screaming their brains out in rage and fear and pelting the bad guy with anything loose and small enough to pick up is going to have an effect! And what is the worst that could happen!?! He is there to kill you, remember?
 
I have a chl and several years ago I was the attempted victim of a carjacking in the parking lot of a supermarket.As I returned to my car this fellow showed me his pistol in his waistband and requested my car keys. I placed my groceries on the ground and reached into my front left pocket where I keep my keys and my p-11. I must have been confused, as I pulled out my p-11 instead of my car keys.Had him gently place his gun on the ground and called 911 on my cell. Police arrived quickly arrested the dumbass and took possession of his gun.All I had to do was show my chl and dl and I was on my way.Good thing because if he had his gun in hand, I would have given him my car keys ,then shot him dead in the drivers seat of my car.That would have made the third time I discharged my weapon in defense of my life or property.I love Texas! FWIW I have yet to kill or wound anyone, other than when I was in the military.
 
As a pacifist, she's going to get dead in her scenario. Disarming is not stopping. You have to do what it takes to stop the attack. If disarming is not a crucial means to that end, it's not relavent.

Dan
 
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