How easy is it to actually take away a firearm?

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I've got a black belt in Tae Kwon Do. I ain't gonna try it. I carry my own gun so that I can follow the Dalai Lama's advice.

"If someone is shooting at you, then it is reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."

Yeah, it can be done, maybe if you're extrememly good, and extremely lucky, and the bad guy is extremely dumb. You're surely not gonna learn it in a one day seminar.

~~~Mat
 
I'm not even gonna try. I might, if there is no other option, try to redirect the gun with one hand while I attempt to put his nose bone through his ethmoid bone or peel his Adam's Apple or geld him with my other hand.

Biker
 
If the gun is holstered, I thought the Teuller Drill shows us that you can get to a person within a 21 foot radius before they can train their gun on you.
 
1) the pacificst is not really a pacifist if they think they have the willing to grapple someone to disarm them

2) their delusions of pacifism may slow them down enough for them tog et shot. repeatedly.

3) by the time they have trained enough in martials arts to do a disarm fast and reliably, they probably will elect to get a carry permit. Just trying the exercise and failing enough will teach her.

So tell her to take lot of classes and lessons and sparring focusing specifically on disarming and then tell you how easy it is.
 
Here's two links to disarms.

The first one shows just the first "move" [ getting off line and "touching" the gun instead of grabbing it ] on the cop because I kept him from pulling the trigger several times by the grab.

The second is gun to my head, he's waiting for me to move, knows I'm going to move and watch what happens. Action beats reaction, even when the other KNOWS you are about to attempt this.

I'd say that's pretty effective when you can take it from the adversary and they know it is coming [ this was his third attempt to shoot me ].

http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155&highlight=disarms
post #1 has the link to the vid clip

http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155&page=2&highlight=disarms
post #13 has the link to the vid clip

Trained in these back in 81, it takes knowledge and the "will" to take them out.

Notice in both clips, I'm not dancing around, having to knee them, punch them etc. The second clip pretty much shows where they'll end up, but you can get rougher if deemed necessary, or you just feel like it for some reason.:D

Brownie
 
Fun theoretical question and for LEO a significant issue as the duty sidearm is
the weapon used in a lot of LEO deaths. For those of us who carry concealed it should be an issue of minimal importance. People should not be
aware that a weapon is available to be taken from us. That is why it's called a concealed weapon. Miscreants should only be aware of it when it is drawn and pointed at them as a response to a grave threat. If they immediately run away or prostrate themselves at the sight of the weapon we reholster it. If not you should fire the weapon and neutralize the threat. Do not draw the weapon unless justification to fire is real. I don't worry much about being forcibly disarmed. I have no intention of letting the lesser life predators know it exists until it's use is needed if at all possible. I certainly do not intend to allow some one who knows I have a weapon to get within arms reach if I can help it.
 
thexrayboy;

The disarm is for when the BG puts the gun on you [ you take it from him ], not the other way around so that they can't take it from you [ your thoughts would be a potential counter disarm which has rarely been discussed here or elsewhere ;) ].

Brownie
 
so i live right down the road from the Shaolin Temple, in Henan, PRC. i have seen some things that make crouching tiger and hidden dragon look ameturish. that being said, the instructors have no other job than teaching martial arts, and they are the best in the world. anyone with less commitment would be better off with a gun.

a shameless plug: my sugar is an english speaking chinese tour guide who books shaolin specialty training. have a week, or two, or ten, she can book you into training, and handle all of you in-china needs, airport to airport. groups as small as 6 welcome. groups as large as 60, no problem. references available.

e-mail me for details:
[email protected]
 
I hope she has some good life insurance, her kids are going to need it. One of three things are going to happen to her:
1) Shot
2) Beaten and shot
3) Beaten, raped and shot

It can be done, but it takes a good deal of training and it's still an absolute last resort. Tell her to take several years of (insert martial art here) and then get back to you on how she feels about disarms.:D
 
I trained for years in a system that included disarming techniques.

There were some verbal lessons about disarming an assailant that I think can make the difference between success and disaster.

Having enough knowledge of the weapon to be able to assess the assailant's level of skill. Low skill, tactical errors may give one the opportunity. High skill, sound tactics and it is best not to try unless there is a high probability that the assailant means to kill you and this can be hard to judge.
 
I got to do this once in a real life scenario. I had taken one class on the subject, which I thought was pretty much a waste until that time.
The guy, who was known to me, pulled the thing and pointed it in such a way that it was at arm's length from his body, but much closer to my body. I moved out of the way of the muzzle and grabbed it and twisted it out of his hand and pushed him and RAN LIKE H#LL.

It didn't feel that difficult, but it didn't feel like a reproducible result either. The gun that the guy had was some sort of percussion revolver. I destroyed it, wish I had kept it. The man in question was someone I knew, and probably had at least some hesitation about killing me. Also, I don't think he knew how to handle the gun very well-- he had it in one hand at full arm's length from his body, rahter than in some sort of proper stance. I'm not sure if it was double action or single action, but I'm pretty sure the hammer wasn't back when I grabbed it. I think I took him by surprise, too, and that might have carried the day.

In most situations, I imagine you'd be better off just trying to run.
 
In most situations, I imagine you'd be better off just trying to run.

:eek: Running from someone who has a gun pointed at you? I can feel the lead in my back just thinking about it.:(

Thats not my idea of being proactive in the least if given the opportunity, based on the circumstances, to use the training I have.

Brownie
 
I would't suggest it unless it is a LAST resort. If you decide it needs to be done, control the direction of the muzzle as best you can and use the technique of the day to convince him to give it up. BUT, control the muzzle.

Grab the pistol around the slide and hold on tightly. If it goes off, it can't cycle. A revolver around the cylinder, the trigger can't be pulled. If you only get the barrel, expect some pain from the flash gap between the cylinder and forcing cone. But hold on!

Any human interaction can have unpredictable results so once a disarm is initiated, your in it to the end. Regardless of the outcome.

I would rather do this against a pistol than a knife.

Better yet, stay out of condition white and don't get into these sort of predicaments.
 
Running from someone who has a gun pointed at you? I can feel the lead in my back just thinking about it.
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Yeah, it's not something I cherish the idea of either. The risk of getting shot is never a fun prospect. But it's kind of hard to hit someone who's running from you, especially if they're not going in a straight line. At least, it's hard with deer.
 
Sharps-shooter;

I agree, it's going to be harder to hit a moving target.

Where this gets interesting is deer move quite a bit faster [ actually a lot faster ] , and can turn much more quickly [ redirect ] themselves and able to bound over objects.

All the above, things that we can't do.

Deer also would have a hard time getting away from a hunter who was close enough to touch it and whose weapon was already up and positioned to fire.

How hard is it going to be to hit a man who is 2 feet from you that turns and runs? Not very hard at all. Most would likely be able to get off 4 shots or more before he could move 10 feet.

Running from someone pointing a gun at you from contact to 2 feet away while they point a gun at you is not increasing your chances of not getting shot IMO.

Brownie
 
how easy is it to actually win at poker?

Where this gets interesting is deer move quite a bit faster [ actually a lot faster ] , and can turn much more quickly [ redirect ] themselves and able to bound over objects.
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hmm. Good point. In the situation I described, It was well within my grasp and I had no clear venue for exit (until I pushed the guy out of my way). So in that situation it seemed like the only thing to do.

But say the guy had known about gun fighting from somewhere other than cowboy movies. He might have anticipated the possibility of me trying that, and stood ten feet away, with both hands on the gun and the hammer back. That's still a mighty close shot, but would have made it very difficult for me to grab it before it stung me. That might have been messy.

So I guess if I had to draft guidelines for when to run and when to grab, I'd say that if you were close enough to grab, that's probably too close to be able to run. And if you're too far away to grab it, try to run. But I'm certainly wide open to better suggestions.
 
So I guess if I had to draft guidelines for when to run and when to grab, I'd say that if you were close enough to grab, that's probably too close to be able to run. And if you're too far away to grab it, try to run. But I'm certainly wide open to better suggestions.

That sounds as if it would be prudent as you would not attempt a disarm unless you were close enough to make the disarm to begin with [ arms reach maximum ].

Brownie
 
it all depends on who is holdin the weapon. a novice with a gun will get my vote over a warrior with good reflexs. squeezin a trigger beats closin a gap almost everytime. and if a experienced shooter pulls on you....... put distace between you and hope they are likin the power buzz enough NOT to shoot you in the back, or get a good protection dog. best thing is to do ya damdest to not get in that situation !
 
If taking a gun away from someone is easy, then it's easy to take back too.
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That was what I thought when I watched the video. Are they going to 'Krav Maga' each other until one of them passes out from exhaustion?
 
Does she stop being a pacificist after she takes the gun? I don't think that there's some kind of middle ground such as "Armed Pacifist in Temporary Possession."

It's sad that she intends to teach her children that it's all right to take other people's things away from them. That sets a bad example for the kids.

What she ought to do, I think, is call a teacher and report the person who is violating the rules. That's what they teach at Virginia Tech and other schools. Then she would be reinforcing the lesson she wants her children to learn.

I suppose she also could blow a loud whistle, unless the incident takes place where excessive noise would be inconsiderate of other people.

Me, if I were in her shoes, I would calmly reason with the man pointing the gun. I would show him real concern and establish sensible human interaction. She could ask him the causes of his anti-social behavior and suggest that he spend a few moments considering the sources of his hostility.

Perhaps she could offer him a cookie or invite him home to meet the family. That way she would preserve her pacifist ideals, rescue an unfortunate person, and perhaps even rehabilitate him so that he could turn his life in productive directions.

The pacifists I've known would have died before using force of any kind on another human being.
 
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