Wolf Steel Cased Ammo Bad for My Colt AR?

I've never had any problems feeding my AR Wolf. I've only used the poly stuff, not the old lacquer coated kind. I don't know if it would be my go-to zombie bear load, but for plinking you can't beat the cost savings over mil-surp ammo.

funny how gun manufacturers tout their guns as bullet-proof(pun intended) to sell their guns then run away screaming like school girls at the mention of steel cased ammo. if your gun can't handle surplus ammo maybe you should find a new gun manufacturer.

i forget which website it was, but the writer theorized that steel cased ammo doesn't expand as well as brass...which allows more carbon fouling to enter the chamber. fouling in the chamber causes friction. friction causes extraction problems. solution was to clean your firearm more.

Just clean her well each and every time,and all is good!!!

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IMHO this should be done regardless of what ammo is being used and how much!

Extractors are easy to swap out.

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Not if it fails on you when you need it the most. I wouldn't hesitate to run steel cased ammo through my plinking guns, but none of my "serious" guns will ever see another round of it.

Stay away from the Wolf! I have experienced this ammo w/ buddies' AR's and the steel case just were not meant to be

I don't know if i like the idea of oiling the top round. Where did you pick that info up?

I could see that oil increasing chamber pressure a bit, maybe not to unsafe levels but still...........

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From all those pre WWII machine guns that had oilers. One of the Nambu's did that, I think. Col Chin's fourth book shows oiler designs, one drop of oil per cartridge. These designs were attempting to reduce breech friction. The Peterson rifle used wax. As long as the oil film is very thin, nothing bad will happen. Does not take much oil to get lubrication.

NTX

8700 rounds of Wolf through my Carbon-15 - Never Any Issues

It is good practice and plinker ammo for sure. Plan on 1 round in a 1000 average with a misfire or bent case, but then again that is on par with most of the high dollar brass too from what i've found (better than UMC). Believe me, the 1200.00 bucks i've saved on ammo using Wolf in all my guns are well worth a 14.00 extractor replacement. In fact, I can buy another bushmaster altogether with a bunch of spare mags for that. If you shoot a lot, you will want to consider this. It will wear your extractors a bit faster in some guns with soft extractors, but who cares?? We are still talking about a failure mode in X 1000 rounds.

So far this whole thread has been in ref. to .223. What about an AR in .308. Has anyone shot steel .308 through thier AR? I'm picking up my new DPMS LR308 on Sunday (very excited). I've been shooting steel 7.62 through my SKS since day one with no issues. But for a $150 rifle I wasn't expecting tight tolerances. I don't want to screw up my new rifle with it's first magazine. Am I now doomed to the most expensive ammo ever because of this rifle platform's idiosyncracies? What exactly is the worst that can happen? Broken bolt/extractor? Blowing my arm off?

the worse i've heard about wolf is some nasty residue and smell.. I've ran about 200 rnds thru my .223 AK, no problems (a few duds, but thats the worse and only problem i had).

I'm pretty sure that DPMS discourages the use of steel cased ammo in their guns.

I'm pretty sure that DPMS discourages the use of steel cased ammo in their guns.

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Probably. But that just makes me want to try.
Will there be a problem?
What about handloading? I'm sure they don't encourage it, but has anyone had a problem?

There have been several reports of Kabooms with Wolf steel 308, do some searches.

I for one have not shot it, and I suspect I will not for quite some time, I have a "little" surplus available instead.

Reports of the Wolf Gold 308 is very good.

I do shoot steel case ammunition in some rifles.
I do not shoot steel case ammunition in any AR15/M16 type rifle period.
Don't shoot it in a Mini 14, a Reminton 742/7400 or a Browning either.
I do make pretty good money every single year removing stuck and broken steel cases from the chambers of AR15 rifles and Mini 14s and that includes Wolf, Barnaul, and god only knows what else people are coming up with.

Don't buy a $1000.00 rifle if you aren't willing to feed it quality ammunition.
At the very least take the time to learn the quirks of reloading for a semi auto rifle and practice the hobby if you wish to shoot for less.

That or prepare to pay me, or some other gunsmith, good money to get the case out of your chamber.
It will happen to you eventually, I can almost guarantee it.

Oh yeah, Saiga and Bulgarian AK sporters and the few Chinese 5.56 AKs that actually work shoot steel case blaster ammo just fine.
We sell loads of the stuff to guys who own these rifles and not one, ever has experienced a broken or stuck case.
If you really want to shoot cheap I recommend the Saiga.

No problems whatsoever with polymer-coated Wolf .223 in my mid-length RRA carbine. But don't take my word for it:

The following ammunition advisory is given on Bushmaster's website:

"BUSHMASTER PERSONNEL HAVE USED THE FOLLOWING AMMUNITIONS in various calibers for testing at the factory, and found they will cycle without malfunction and have not caused damage or problems:
PMC / SPEER / REMINGTON / WINCHESTER / WOLF / SELLIER & BELLOT
AMERICAN EAGLE (Federal Manufactured) / M.E.N. (German Manufacture)"

http://www.bushmaster.com/faqnew/content_by_cat.asp?contentid=215&catid=103

DPMS only warns against the old lacquer-coated ammo, and only because it fouls the chamber:

"Lacquer Coated Ammunition or Steel-cased, lacquer coated ammunition

The problem with this ammunition is that the lacquer coating on the case. As the barrel heats up, the lacquer turns to a soft, varnish substance and upon cool down, becomes very solid and difficult to remove. This effectively creates an undersized chamber and creates understandable problems."

http://www.dpmsinc.com/support/warning.aspx

Onmilo, I'm glad that you are making good money. That said, I would think that stuck and broken cases would occur more often with brass than steel

In any case, now you've finally justified my purchase of a set of broken case extractors. Up till now I always thought they were a 20.00 item that never got used and was just a good way for stores to make money.

Colonel Cooper in one of his last columns mentioned that in WWII, steel case ammo was issued for the .45 auto. He said standard practice for savvy combat vets was to put a drop of oil on the top cartridge. I'm guessing this would apply to .223 as well, though in my experience with my Bushmaster, it isn't necessary.

I have never had a problem with Wolf in my ARs.
The big problem with Wolf is supposedly that it will break extractors (not that Wolf ever broke mine). As Nomad,2nd pointed out extractors are cheap and the cost savings of Wolf will easily outweigh the cost of a new extractor.

I wouldn't use wolf for any precision shooting as it doesn't burn as efficently as say federal would.

My friends says that if i want to hunt a lot with a .308 that i shouldn't fire too many wolf rounds before hand. Would this do any bad?

My issue M16 broke an extractor...and it never saw round of wolf.

Yes, but how many rounds of M855?

Probably a bit more that a billion.

This was on an A1, just as the A2s were entering service with the USMC and 82nd--so it was probably on the back side of its service life.

Still, the seemed to be such delicate little things, especially in comparison to the M1 I was more familiar with or an AK.

I think the laquer is an issue because of the taper of the 5.56 vs a x39 round (that's just speculation).

Wolf is cheap ammo, fine for plinking but not target shooting. I doubt it will hurt your AR, but you never know. It is known that Wolf ammo is usually underpowered compared to standard factory ammo. A friend chronograph some Wolf .45 ACP, his Smith 1911 had problems feeding, to standard Winchester white box, same weight bullets, and found the Wolf to be about 100-150 fps less than the Winchester. This may cause feeding issues in some firearms.

Older Wolf was lacquer coated and if you paused long enough with a hot barrel a stuck case could result. Even so, it never happened to me.

Have over 10k black box Wolf poly mostly through 3 different M16 uppers. Zero problems of any type. No broken parts. No failures to cycle. Money saved to date vs commercial M193 surplus equivalent is enough to purchase a brand new complete Colt upper from Sawlesales. So I really don't care if I do break an extractor.

But I doubt I will break anything by shooting steel. I have yet to find a fired case that shows any evidence of polymer finish abrasion. No part of the steel case is touching any part of the steel chamber/bolt/extractor.

Most steel case .223 is loaded to mild pressure and velocity specs. I consider this a plus. Finally, I like being able to clean up at shoots with a power-magnet.

Negatives: dirty (requires more frequent cleaning interval) and inaccurate. If you shoot alot of Wolf and fail to clean the chamber before making a switch to NATO spec brass case a stuck or separated case can result.

Sam