Steel ammo (Wolf) for my DPMS?

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Heretic said:
Looking at the pics toward the beginning of this thread, you can see the steel is pretty soft.
So you say that Silver Bear is pretty accurate?
Click to expand...

By and large, if you stick with the Barnaul plant produced ammo (which is the "Bears", now plus the Wolf "WPA" - Wolf the importer recently switched to buying from Barnaul), you'll find it hotter, more consistent and more accurate than the Tula plant produced stuff (Tula/Tulammo/White Box "Hunting Cartridges"/Herters).

As mentioned earlier, its good enough for me to ring 8 inch gongs at 250 yards - can't really complain too much considering the price.
 
Your AR will shoot the wolf but they are inconsistent, dirty and in the long run more expensive. You can find 1K round deals ( actual Brass) for $240 to $290 online, even if they are surplus or seconds many you can still reload.
Do not buy from walmart they are destroying america.
Some wolf is good to have for shooting some pumpkins or cans.

Cheers.
E.
 
Revenue:
Bad shooting = 18cents/round
Good shooting = priceless

Cost:
Steel $240 1K rounds + extra cleaning supplies + chewed up ejector.
Nato surplus $240 1K rounds and can reuse or sell brass.
PMC 1K rounds $290 rcan reuse or sell brass.

Option:
Reload 1K rounds:
PRimers 27
Bullets 84
Powder 62
==============
next 1K rounds 173 + Pleasure of reloading

Long term:
Wolf = made in russia = dollars out the window
other = made in china = destroying america.
Federal Lake City Plant = some bread in some american home table for dinner.
 
1stmarine said:
Long term:
Wolf = made in russia = dollars out the window
other = made in china = destroying america.
Federal Lake City Plant = some bread in some American home table for dinner.
Click to expand...


Well said, can't argue with that…
 
For those who think there's a fire potential because of the bi-metal bullets, you can buy a 1000 rounds of MFS (Similar to silver bear), with Soft Point bullets. No fire potential. Including shipping, the total price is about $239.

As for the price of steel case being more expensive than brass in the long run, that's just plain ridiculous. There are no extra cleaning supplies to buy. And it's not going to chew up your ejector. But even if it did, say every 5,000 rounds, an ejector cost $2.95. YES... TWO DOLLARS AND NINETY FIVE CENTS!!!

You're talking all myths here. Unfortunately, there are some naive people that will buy some of these stories. As for buying American Brass Ammo 1000 round case for $240 online...... Give me a link. I can find soft point MFS for $240 a case, and that includes shipping. If you can give me a link for 1000 rounds of american brass for $240, I'll buy it. No problem. I can find it as low as about $300 for 1000. Oh, while you're on your "BUY AMERICA ONLY" kick. A couple things. 1) Most of that PMC ammo most people think is nice and clean and cheap, is made in Korea. PMC is supplied by "Poongsan Corporation of Korea". You'll also find that a lot of surplus ammo is greek, turkish, and many other overseas countries. And unless you don't have any sony, panasonic, hitachi, and dozens of other overseas products in your home, I think something as insignificant as ammunition; which is probably a very small part of your disposable income; is probably not where you want to start your "Buy America" crusade. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for buying America. When the product is better and the prices haven't been jacked up by corrupt unions who take companies hostage.
 
I don't do links. I buy from my neighbors and local gun shops. we have an ammunition distribution center close by and they give us a great discount for bulk.
Same thing I do with food only local farms, neighbors, friends. Give it a try, it is a nice feeling doing something for your community and your country.

Prefer LC plant, the good stuff but I would buy PMC, german surplus, anything over any more Chinese anything!
And you are right, the sad part sometimes it is impossible to get US made or from our allies. Chinese they are getting ready to invade America. They are already here! Communists mang!

And keep shooting your steel puffins. This is a free country after all.

Hold on, AKs we have to give them a pass too because they are so awesome... put some steel for those too...
 
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Sorry if I think that's pretty lame. You make a claim that people should buy brass ammo, because you can get it for $240-$290 ONLINE. "YOUR WORDS". Yet, when I ask for a link online for some at $240, you tell me you don't do links. That you don't buy online. That you have an ammo distribution center nearby and you buy locally. Sorry, but that is LAME.

Not saying you're B.S.ing us here, but don't make up that you can buy brass ammo for $240 per 1000 ONLINE, and then not be able to come up with ANY places ONLINE that sell it for that.
 
Years ago I bought 2000 223 primed cases from River Valley Ordance for $65 per 1000, Lake City brass with Winchester Primers. I still have around 1700, so that will keep me in stock for a long time. I don't know if they are still in business but it really worked out for me. Reloading is the only way to go if you are shooting many calibers like I do..
 
How much do you reload Jem? Average cases can only be reloaded about 5-6 times before the brass stretches too much, gets to thin, and starts not being able to be reloaded any more. If you've only used 300 pieces of brass, then at most, you'd get 1500-1800 rounds from those 300 rounds of brass. You said you bought these years ago. 1800 rounds in years isn't anything. I shoot 500 rounds in one afternoon. I bought a new AR for christmas; 6 months only; and i have over 4,000 rounds through it. Reloading is great. i reload for a number of calibers. But i don't reload .223. I'd only save at most, $1 per box. And that's pushing it. When you average the price of brass, and that it can't be reloaded forever and must be replaced, it was costing $0.13 - $0.15 per round to reload. Steel case is costing me $0.18 - $0.20 per round on average. That's about $1 a box savings. That's not really worth my time, unless I was into marksmanship shooting; which i'm not.

Anyway; just wondering how much you reload. Must not reload much, or you don't shoot much.
 
Yea, you're gonna pay a little more for American made ammo. By doing so, you help an American keep his job. You get higher quality,more accurate stuff.
I guess if you don't care much about America, and are just interested in blasting........

And anyone care to tell me whats wrong with Armalite?
 
christcorp said:
How much do you reload Jem? Average cases can only be reloaded about 5-6 times before the brass stretches too much, gets to thin, and starts not being able to be reloaded any more. If you've only used 300 pieces of brass, then at most, you'd get 1500-1800 rounds from those 300 rounds of brass. You said you bought these years ago. 1800 rounds in years isn't anything. I shoot 500 rounds in one afternoon. I bought a new AR for christmas; 6 months only; and i have over 4,000 rounds through it. Reloading is great. i reload for a number of calibers. But i don't reload .223. I'd only save at most, $1 per box. And that's pushing it. When you average the price of brass, and that it can't be reloaded forever and must be replaced, it was costing $0.13 - $0.15 per round to reload. Steel case is costing me $0.18 - $0.20 per round on average. That's about $1 a box savings. That's not really worth my time, unless I was into marksmanship shooting; which i'm not.

Anyway; just wondering how much you reload. Must not reload much, or you don't shoot much.
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I am using the primed cases for my coyote loads, I have so much commercial ammo I have been using PMC and American Eagle for plinking mostly along with some xm193. I reload for most of my guns except shotguns. I have 3 Dillon Square Deals set up for 357, 44 mag, and 45ACp, Rock Chucker for rifle and some pistol loadings, and a Lee loader. So, I reload many calibers and also have plenty of commercial ammo for them also....
 
It isn't that Armalite is absolutely terrible, it is just that they don't do anything particularly right. 1/9 twist barrels, no real attention to detail. And they are overpriced for that they are.

For instance:
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.as...Category=8e8e5de6-5022-483e-812b-822e58014822.

They want $1555 for this gun. That is more than I paid for a Noveske N4 with a 9 inch Omega rail on it a couple of months ago.

There there is this one.
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.as...Category=8e8e5de6-5022-483e-812b-822e58014822

Same problem. For that money I could have a DD or BCM, and for about 100 more I could have a Colt 6920. Any of which do things right that Armalite doesn't.
 
Went back and watched PATRIOTME's linked video. Shows the inaccuracy of the ammo. I doubt he could have put many rounds on the target at all at 100 yards.

Thats a pretty fancy upper. Something like that is bound to cost more.
The other link shows a pretty standard carbine for a grand or so. I've got more than that in mine. You get what you pay for. You can spend less, but you're going to get less.
I have never owned an Armalite, but I have shot a couple. They've seemed a fine rifle to me.
Not trying to be snippy, but when did 1:9 become a bad thing? Mine throws bullets just fine.
 
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In the case of the Armalite you do not get what you pay for. My point on both of those is that you are paying more for less than if you spent the same money on an equivalent Noveske, BCM, Colt, etc.

1/9 has never been a good thing unless you are trying to shoot very light and short bullets. As in sub 50 grain. 1/9 twist barrels preclude you from using some of the better hunting and HD ammo on the maket such as 75 grain Honrady TAP.

Batch testing of barrels and Bolts.
They do not use M4 Feedramps.
Reports of things such as barrels coming loose.
Bad Gas key staking.

Are these things important to you? Maybe, maybe not. But if you are spending the same amount of money why not get one that does it right.
 
Ok, thats what I needed, specifics.I haven't heard any of this before, but I don't think anybody wants their barrel falling off. I just hear people slamming brands, and they seldom have a point except for brand loyalty.If you've read my earlier post, you'll notice that quality is very important to me, hence my reluctance to shoot steel case russian ammo.

But, just for the record, my 1:9 throws 62 grain winchester just fine. Haven't tried 75 grain yet, so I don't know.
And I am giving serious consideration to a BCM upper for my next AR build.
 
My father and I used to shoot wolf steel case ammo through his Colt Match target ar-15 and it never had any problems digesting it

I think a good gun should shoot anything you run through, to a degree
 
Yeah, I loaded up a boat load of ammo for my ARs a little while back. I guess I'm down to about half a bucket. I have to say that while in the middle of that project I started asking myself, "why"? The time involved in cleaning, sizing and trimming just sucks any benefit out of it.

On another note, I have considered using a service that does all of the prep work, because actually loading the ammo is fast and easy on a progressive loader; but this would raise the price to roughly equal that of good steel cased ammo. The only benefit is that the hand loads would likely be appreciably more accurate, assuming that you use a decent bullet.
 
M1key said:
Wow, I can't believe this thread.

M
Click to expand...

Lol...I can, this is how they always go....at least once a month we wheel out the steel cased topic and try to reinvent the wheel and change each others minds.....ain't nothing on here that's not been said before, a hundred thousand times :D Funny how this topic is so polarizing.
 
Buying from a local distribution center lame?
I buy from all the business around me (my neighbors) to support them, even if sometimes I have to pay more. I do not care. Those are the ones that will provide a job for my children and friends in the end.
But sometimes I actually buy cheaper than online and still help the ones next to me.

Try this:
-Find the closest distribution center.
-If you have any friends shooting enthusiasts organize for a few orders to buy bulk.
- You will be surprised of the savings. If you do not have friends and/or a distribution center then go online but still buy bulk.

Good US made affordable and cases for x4 or x5 times....

http://www.surplusammo.com/products...AE223AF-%2d-900-Rounds-on-Stripper-Clips.html

Stay alert on sale items... this one is not US made but at least is not from China. 5.56/box...They were gone pretty quickly..... http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/75970-1.html

The original 5.56 round was designed to be brass.
The AR-15 was designed for the original 5.56 round not the other way around.
If steel was any better everyone would be using steel. It is just cheaper, not better. cannot reload. There is good steel stuff, but that is not cheaper.

Reloading...

Option A
If you want to learn to reload fast and inexpensively it can be done. No dusty tumbling needed but I understand this is not for everyone.

Option B
If you shoot this brass and save it and do not want to reload save it.
Someone might buy it from you. Then you can take these $'s and invest into the next 900 or 1K rounds.
 
How buying from a local distribution center in not "lame"
I buy from all the business around me (my neighbors) to support them, even if sometimes I have to pay more. I do not care. Those are the ones that will provide a job for my children and friends in the end.
But sometimes I actually buy cheaper than online and still help the ones next to me.

Try this:
- Find the closest distribution center.
- If you have any friends shooting enthusiasts organize for a few orders to buy bulk.
- You will be surprised of the savings. If you do not have friends and/or a distribution center then go online but still buy bulk.
- Ask friends if someone is active or retired military, LE/fire then you most like have additional discounts if he puts the order.

Good US made affordable and cases for at least x4 or x5 reloads.

http://www.surplusammo.com/products...AE223AF-%2d-900-Rounds-on-Stripper-Clips.html

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/57281-1.html

Sign up for on sale items... this one is not US made but at least is not from a communist country like China. 5.56/box...They were gone pretty quickly..... http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/75970-1.html

The original 5.56 round was designed to be brass.
The AR-15 was designed for the original 5.56 round not the other way around.
If steel was any better everyone would be using steel. It is just cheaper, not better. cannot reload. There is good steel stuff, but that is not cheaper.

Reloading...

Option A
If you want to learn to reload fast and inexpensively it can be done. No dusty tumbling needed but I understand this is not for everyone.

Option B
If you shoot this brass and save it and do not want to reload save it.
Someone might buy it from you. Then you can take these $'s and invest into the next 900 or 1K rounds.


Ammunition or not, one dollar saved at big retailers (ie: walmart) in Chinese c.r.a.p. is one dollar long term investment towards the future misery of our children.
 
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