Why!? Oh why!?

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Nolo

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Why do AR-15s have that bleeding forward assist? The AR-10 doesn't seem to need one and I've never heard of anyone using one. So why? It's so bloody ugly, the artist in me is crying.
This is stupid Natism. If you want to annihilate my ridiculous ranting, feel free to do so.
 
You'd glad you had it... under combat conditions. Thats why its there.
I suppose, but instead of giving it a forward assist, why didn't they just give it a proper cocking handle like every other rifle?
 
proper cocking handle like every other rifle?
Today 09:59 AM

Why oh why did you have to say cocking handle? That word is so rediculous the poet inside of me is crying.
 
a nonrecriprocating charging handle doesn't catch on things, pulling the bolt out of battery, alowing foreign matter into the action. with the addition of the dust cover, it is designed to be a relatively closed system to the elements.
 
Someone explain the silly placement of the charging handle -- this serious failure in ergonomics has prevented me from getting an AR15. All the ones I've ever shot felt super awkward compared to a FAL or AK (or XCR, or SIG -- though I have not tried those).

-T
 
a nonrecriprocating charging handle doesn't catch on things, pulling the bolt out of battery, alowing foreign matter into the action. with the addition of the dust cover, it is designed to be a relatively closed system to the elements.
That's a good point, especially for the AR-15, but by God it's still an eyesore!
 
Nolo;

Aesthetics be damned. You obviously weren't there when the need for one became critical. Men died for the lack of it.

900F
 
Nolo;

Aesthetics be damned. You obviously weren't there when the need for one became critical. Men died for the lack of it.

900F
Function before form, yes.
I'm not arguing, I'm wondering. I can appreciate the art of a weapon, no? As I said, this is merely me ranting. There is a good reason for it. And I'd rather have it than not if my life depended on it.
But, dang it, it's so freakin' ugly!
 
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Join Date: 02-22-03
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Nolo;

Aesthetics be damned. You obviously weren't there when the need for one became critical. Men died for the lack of it.

900F

+1
I was first issued one with out forward assist, and we were told you "never need to clean this" Boy, they were wrong.

But, dang it, it's so freakin' ugly!
If your bolt ever failed to go into battery while in a fire fight, it's the most beautiful thing in the world.
 
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Nolo;

Aesthetics be damned. You obviously weren't there when the need for one became critical. Men died for the lack of it.

900F


There's a reason for it to be there not, NOT a good reason why it should be needed.

Wouldn't the more appropriate action by the initial engineering/assessment team or soldiers, have been,

"Sh*t, it won't reliably work in a combat situation without welding something on to push a round into the chamber. I know, we'll review the design and build it so it will work."

"Oh and while we are at that, we may as well as look at the ergonomics of the charger, I mean it sort of makes sense that we should place it where a soldier can get to it without moving his arms around or upsetting point of aim. "

Right now you either take your right hand off the pistol grip and tilt your head to one side whilst maintaining a grip on the handguard, grab and haul past your ear or you move your left hand from the barrel, move the rifle to one side so your body isn't in the way and after cocking, return to where you were.

As opposed to say the FAL/L1A1/G3, left hand is right by the cocking handle, maintain point of aim, don't shift your head, grasp, cycle and away you go.

Same with the ejector cover.

The British Army when it was taking on the FAL -> L1A1 were also concerned about gunk in the working parts. Their solution, as opposed to trying to bolt on a thin piece of stamped metal on springs to the rifle to keep mud and dust out of the working parts, cut dirt channels in the bolt carrier. Nothing to break, does the job, less to maintain.

Yes I know, The M16, its a weapon that's been here for 45+ years, it's still in use, modular platform etc etc.

Doesn't mean the weapon, like any machind tool, doesn't have flaws that should have been addressed at the beginning.
 
Tyris:
Someone explain the silly placement of the charging handle -- this serious failure in ergonomics has prevented me from getting an AR15. All the ones I've ever shot felt super awkward compared to a FAL or AK (or XCR, or SIG -- though I have not tried those).

-T

An ambidextrous charging handle that can be manipulated by left/right handed shooters with their NON-FIRING hand is what you call "silly placement"?

You prefer the ergonomics of weapons with the charging handle on the right side, a weapon where you have to cant the weapon to the side in order to charge the weapon with your non-firing hand?
 
Look at the father of the AR 15, the AR 10. It's charging lever was enclosed my the carry handle. The Army didn't like that. So now you have what you have. You didn't need the a handle connect to the bolt because "the little black riffle didn't jam". At least that was the claim. Also the barrel and chamber didn't need to be chromed for the same reason, "why waste the money".

Well the "little black rifle" showed up in Nam and guess what. It does jam, there is no cleaning supplies issued, and there is no way to force the bolt closed in a fouled chamber. Thus you have the "forward assist".

If you look hard you can still find AR uppers without them. How ever if you plan to bet your life on that rifle, I would keep it.
 
I'm not sure i like the idea of cramming a round into a fouled chamber. You might end up with a shell that won't come out, requiring you to punch it out with a rod down the bore.
 
At the very least it's useful when you're using blanks, which often need a little encouragement to chamber.
 
There's a reason for it to be there not, NOT a good reason why it should be needed.

There is a very good reason for it - the charging handle doesn't reciprocate. Prior to this, you banged on the charging handle itself to seat a round - and believe me, it did and does happen that you need to do this in other weapons.
 
If you must have a non-assisted AR upper, DPMS makes a slick sided upper.
 
Somone (I forget who) makes an AR-15 upper and bolt carrier with a fixed charging handle that looks a lot like the one on a Galil.
 
Why do AR-15s have that bleeding forward assist? The AR-10 doesn't seem to need one and I've never heard of anyone using one. So why? It's so bloody ugly, the artist in me is crying.

Comes in real handy for a deliberate load with press check when you only partially retract the charging handle to verify loading and then need to put the weapon back into battery.
 
Of all the criticisms of the AR-15 platform, offending one's sense of aesthetics is by far the most compelling I've heard yet.
 
I've never had a problem with the placement of the charging handle or the forward assist. They both function flawlessly on my AR's. Never thought about an aesthetics issue either.
 
The AR-10 doesn't seem to need one and I've never heard of anyone using one.

I use mine quite frequently. Both my AR's occasionally have trouble loading the first round in a 30rnd mag and I have to hit the FA to close the bolt. Some folks say you should only load 28rnds in a 30rnd mag to avoid that problem, but that's just plain silly. The FA solves the problem.
 
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