Best SHTF rifle/carbine on a BUDGET

An AK in 5.45x39. Ammo is cheap right now, as are the magazines.

Need more specifics to what kind of SHTF.

Here in H-town the worste id imagine would be a near Katrina senario so sub 50 yard engagments are most common. Any shotgun would be best for defending the homestead and a pistol strapped to you at all times is best. Lots of ammo, food, water, first aid, and batteries would be just as important!

great point enron exec,

I'm living on the plains in a very rural area. SHTF here might mean needing to make a 200 yard food shot if we got cut off or something.

if your willing to do a little light gunsmithing and refinishing you can pick up a WASAR GP 10 for 400$ use the rest of your money on magazines and ammo.

Hmm, SHTF rifle on a budget???

AK or SKS(your choice) and a bunch of ammo.

Both are incredibly durable and take very, very common ammo. Both are easy to fix or just dump and replace in an emergency. Get a yugo underfolder AK for better concealment you might need in a SHTF situation like Katrina where the government is seizing weapons.

In a SHTF situation or TEOTWAWKI situation, the military/police will probably be using most if not all of the 5.56/.223 ammo. The 7.62x39mm ammo should be largely available.

As others have said before. Don't forget about all the other aspects of a true SHTF scenario. I would suggest a Savage Scout 10FCM. It would be very useful for a lot more then SHTF. What ever you get take the time to realy learn how to use it. A true rifleman with a .22 bolt action is more effective then some Dork with a full auto whatever.

how can you beat a NEW saiga 7.62x39 for 250? I have one converted nice with an ace folding stock and a kobra side scope but I am seriously mulling getting another and doing the minimum conversion on it just to have two. hell I have two boys so THREE.
Serious given your criteria best bang for the buck period.

Prices are getting where you would be hard pressed to find a decent but used SKS for that same 250. I impulse bit and got a yugo SKS for 300 last year but it was as advertised straight from the assembly line into cosmoline storage so I don't feel too too stupid.

SAY GA

If I didn't already have my SHTF arsenal and was starting from scratch, I would go with an SKS and install a non-detachable 20 round Chinese magazine. Double the magazine capacity without compromising reliability and no magazines to keep track of. Another "must have" to go along with mucho ammo is a couple of broken shell extractors. Nothing could be worse than a headless case stuck in the chamber when the chips are down.

I like the SKS as a good choice also. Stone cold reliable and reloads are pretty fast with stripper clips. If you can find a Russian at a decent price get it. The folding bayonet might come in handy.

Romanian or Yugoslavian AK, some magazines, and either a Kobra or PK-AS optic on the siderail mount, or a red dot on an aftermarket forward rail (e.g., Ultimak).



You should be able to find a rifle locally for well under $400, leaving you a couple hundred for an optic (my Kobra was $179, but I'd expect you'd pay around $200 now).

The low-end AK's are good rifles, as long as you get a good one (which is no problem as long as you can examine it in person before you buy).

You could spend even less if you get a Saiga instead of an AK, but you'd be stuck with low-capacity magazines unless you did the obligatory 18 USC 922(r) compliant conversion (which would bring the price up).

I would either buy a Saiga or an SKS. Then I would spend the rest and buy enough 7.62x39 till I ran out of room to store it. Both are 10 round guns and you have to buy extra mags for the Saiga, slight advantage to the SKS being stripper clip fed. Not as bad as most people think with practice. You can buy a bunch more ammo for the price a few more Saiga clips. I like the idea of buying the Chinese 20 round fixed magazine for the SKS, they work well for just a few bucks.

Saiga x39 w/ 16" barrel ~$275
Two Master molder mags ~$20/ea.
a case of Wolf Mil. Classic. ~$200

and you're good to go....

shoot and learn the rifle with the factory 10 round mags.

if the SHTF, pull the hi caps out of your sock drawer and you're good to go.

I doubt under such circumstances 922R compliance is going to be on anyones priority list.

BUT...

You need a rifle that is reliable and that you are proficient with. Which means that you need to invest in ammo and practice.

Is it just me, or does anybody else thing that the prices for SKS rifles have gone over the top.

Why not spend the same amount of money on a NIB Saiga and get...
1. Kalashnikov action,
2. reliable hi-cap mags,
3. a chrome lined barrel....
4. evil black poly furniture

all in a brandy new rifle?

Mini-14's used to be the standard answer for this question, but the SKS and Saiga are probably cheaper in the long run.

The Mini-14 has one advantage over the others, and that is, you can take off your folding stock, put your original wood stock back on, with your Ruger factory 5 rd magazine, and it will pass the evil black rifle test.

What would you do?
Ruger Mini 14s? budget ARs? other?
If you were building a SHTF rifle on a budget (say $600-700 or less),
what would you do, and how would you go about it?
Why would you do it that way?

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Depends on what kind of S you expect to HTF. Temporary troll patrol? Long term "you're on your own, boy" zombie suppression?

Don't forget to budget for ammo.

sks will do you fine.

-almost unbreakable
-Cheap to feed
-plenty poweful for just about any imaginable scenario
-accurate enough
-no magazines to lose

You can build an AR for around $625. I bought my lower from colemantyler.com and the kit from m-aparts.com.

<---- Guy living in an Apartment with neighbors in every direction.
So my idea of SHTF is something along the lines of NOT staying in said apartment, but running for my spot I got picked out in the mountains...which, fortunately there are a lot of in CO. Use of said SHTF rifle would be to ensure passage to the spot in the mountains. I already have my Glock for "shoot-a-bad-guy-in-the-middle-of-the-night" scenario...so I have been looking at a rifle more. After all, who wants to mess with someone holding a big black AK, or modded SKS with a 30 round clip?
still loving the answers by the way...good points by all.
I think I need to pay attention to the ammo situation too. (what's it shoot, and how cheap is it to feed it while familiarizing oneself with the rifle? kind of thoughts.)
GP

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Well, if the S truly hits the F, everyone else will be running for the hills too. I'm guessing you maybe live in the Denver Metro area. Count on every direct route into those mountains being jammed. At least with the convention in August you have plenty of warning. Smarter IMHO to head east or have a plan to stick around and control the immediate area if you have good neighbors.

I'd honestly worry more about running out of gas in a traffic jam on I-70, US-285, etc than having to break out some firepower on the way up to the mtns if I were you though. Probably makes more sense to buy a Mosin, couple spam cans of surplus ammo for practice for a couple hundred bucks, then buy some gas cans and some good camping gear if you don't have it. If you need to book, throw your gear in the vehicle, fill the gas cans at the nearest convenient spot, and go. Your Glock and some spare mags are probably all you need to get out of town unless the Martian BodySnatchers have invaded.

I would say that the more likely SHTF scenarios you need to worry about are big snowstorms (don't need a rifle for that) or power outage (camping gear, nonperishable food and handgun and/or 12 ga if it's widespread and extended).

Supposing that you must have a semi-auto rifle, you probably want something handier and much more compact than the SKS. A folding stock AK or the Kel-Tec SU-16 that folds up would work very well if you want a rifle round. Probably you can get one of those within a $600 budget with a few hundred rounds of ammo as well.

I think getting the Kel-Tec Sub-2000 in the same caliber/magazine as your Glock and those 33 rd magazines would work too. Same magazines, same ammo, very compact, and good out to 100 yds or so. Well within budget with gun, magazines, and 1k+ ammo too.

IMHO, SHTF shouldn't be the only or even primary reason you buy yourself a cool rifle.

Saiga .308 or CETME for a "full-power" rifle.

Maybe a K.T. SU-16 or even an SKS for an intermediate power rifle.

If I were starting over, I'd go with the SKS and a No.4 Enfield with a bunch of stripper clips and ammo for each.
I could probably assemble two of each along with a good amount of ammo for just what would be tied up in one FAL or AR and the accompanying ammo and mags.

Get as much ammo as you think you'll need before you need it too. In many emergencies they suspend the sale of guns and ammo.

I also agree with a rifle as the choice for your primary weapon.
For offense, even a "lower" powered rifle round or a pistol caliber carbine will still gain you probably close to twice the effective range of a shotgun with slugs and you'll have more precision when the rounds get there.
And you lose nothing on defense - a .30 caliber bullet from an old Winchester is just as effective at 25 feet as it is at 150 yards.

I like my Mossberg 500 12 gauge but after thinking this over for awhile, I think it will eventually get replaced with a lever action rifle.

IMO, if you have a concealable centerfire handgun, a rimfire rifle, and a good centerfire rifle, you're pretty well set for most problems you'd come up against in an emergency and you really don't have any need for a shotgun.

For what it might be worth-everybody else on these gun websites has many more years of frequent shooting than I do. Last fall after only having a .22 for decades with no shooting, I bought a brand-new, replica M-1 Carbine (sold it), then two Mosins, a Mini 14, 30, then my SKS 'babe'...
The SKS was simply 'born to shoot' as much, if not more than anything I've ever had or tried out. My first impression of its somewhat brutal looks, just around the receiver bridge, quickly faded after shooting. It all suddenly made sense - a simple, beautiful brute which means business. Wish I had been aware of them when I bought the M-1 C. at a ridiculous (typically $700) retail price. Could have easily bought a good Norinco SKS and 2,000 rounds of hollow-point Wolf ammo: large grapefruits just blow up at 60 feet. But that's really bad...no more targets unless you have a bunch from Kroger. You might consider the so-called 'Paratrooper' version, whose name is a misnomer. Many people like them.

Although I really enjoy my Mini 30 (same x39 caliber), it is tempting to consider selling it one day in order to buy a good bit more ammo for the SKS and some for the Mini 14. Simply cannot afford 'enough ammo', to offset future price increases. The websites 'Simonov' and 'SKSboards' (plus 'Perfectunion SKS') can be quite informative.

First an SKS and later, if you can afford a used .223-caliber gun (i.e. a scratched up Mini 14 might work really well, and costs much less than an AR-15), it would allow you to use two of the most available/affordable ammo types. Some AR-15 types have no 7.62x39 gun.
Among others, Cslinger put the SKS' attributes in a complete nutshell (still kicking myself for not being aware of them or their superb value sooner...).
The Saiga had the smoothest trigger I've ever tried.

The Mini-14 has one advantage over the others, and that is, you can take off your folding stock, put your original wood stock back on, with your Ruger factory 5 rd magazine, and it will pass the evil black rifle test.

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Not anymore, at least as far as bans go. The prohibitionists have made sure of that.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1022

H.R. 1022: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007

A BILL

To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007'.
...
SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.

(a) In General- Section 921(a)(30) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended to read as follows:

(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following:

(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:
...
(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14

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Well, that sucks. Fortunately that bill hasn't made it out of committee in over a year.

Shtf

I'd say SKS with that uses the AK magazines and a few thousand rounds.

J.B.

cheap AR-15, 10/22 for hunting (perfect for small animals and not that noisy with right ammo) and a concealed handgun (or 2)
(i also got a mossberg, 5 handguns (same caliber) ammo, food, water, good first aid kit and a 100 gallon tank of diesel on my truck that is connected to the factory tank i can go 2000 miles with both tanks full without refueling)

Don't know if it has been posted or not but this site has AK47s and AR15s for
$399 and $599 respectively...along with mags, ammo, build parts/kits, and other "stuff".

http://www.classicarms.us/