Sig P220ST/Glock 21SF: Opinions from LE, please

rails/weapons...

If you work for a large PD in an urban area, you may want a Glock 21SF model and then back it up with a Glock model 30 or 30SF. The compact 30/30SF can take the 21SF mags in a pinch.

Glock 21SF's also weigh less than a SIGsauer ST model. Weight/duty gear can be an issue after a few years in uniform.

The Glock comes with a tac rail too, so you can put on laser aimers/white lights if you need them on duty.

Rusty S

Much as I can sympathize with your concern about capacity, here is my advice: you shoot well with the Sig, so carry it. In the meantime, save up the money for the Glock. When you can purchase it, then carry that on duty and allow your beautiful Sig to sit in the safe or be relegated to off-duty and home applications. In my opinion, a Sig 220 ST should never be traded for a Glock unless the owner simply prefers Glock. The only real comparison between the two weapons (and rest assured, I like both a great deal) are capacity and price. After that....well, any Sig afficionado will tell you what separates them....

Also, any department of that size with those kinds of crime problems should be employing the use of long guns as well, such as the shotgun. Handguns shouldn't be the only firearm tools available.

i believe the glock has less recoil do to its polymer frame and larger grip

When in LE I would opt for the high capacity choice here.

Your P220 is reliable, and you want to carry something else, that is unproven? Don't buy the myth that Glocks are all reliable; two of mine had issues. For that matter, not all SIGs are reliable, either, but I would hang onto a reliable firearm that fit me well and shot well for me.

I dumped my Glock G22 duty pistols in 2004 when I bought a SIG P229R DAK, and shot it better. Yes, I gave up a bit of ammo capacity, but accurate shots tend to eliminate the need to reload. Moreover, in an urban area, is missing a good idea? I carried 1911 pistols as duty sidearms from 1997 to 2002, and did not sweat the ammo capacity issue. I carried duty sixguns from 1984 to 1991, and 1993 to 1997, and did not worry about ammo capacity. I carried a P220 from 1991 to 1993; no worries about ammo capacity, though the heel-clip mag release would catch on the seat fabric, partially releasing the mag; therefore the switch back to sixguns for a while.

My P229 is so size-efficient, that I would not want to voluntarily switch duty guns again, but if a retro-minded chief mandated we all carry sixguns again, or 8-shot autos, I would feel OK about ammo capacity. (Current policy is .40 autos from an "approved" list, none being single-action, purchased by the officers.) There was a rumor that .45 ACP would be approved again, but a P229 fits me better than a P220.

All this is my point of view. I will never tell someone that greater ammo capacity is a bad idea, for them. I will say that for most of us, most of the time, accuracy is more important. Another aspect to consider is CCW while off the clock. (We are never really "off duty" until we retire!) The P220 is a MUCH more concealable weapon that a G22, based on my experience, and a G21 is bigger than a G22.

Edited to add: Who is offering to trade? It seems he thinks your SIG is better than his Glock, so keep that in mind. Unless he is a angel, he thinks he will end up better after the trade.

Another thought: If the Glock is just a bit large for you, you might remain permanently disappointed in its accuracy. I could never shoot my G22 duty pistols up to the level of my 1911s or sixguns, and the very first time I fired my P229, I shot it better than I had ever qual'ed with a Glock. The Glocks were just a tiny bit too large, with my pinky and ring fingers not able to contribute much to gripping. The other pistols I mentioned could be held in a way that felt locked into my grip; the Glock never felt locked-in, but like a beast I had to try hang onto.

Hi officer,

On these mean streets, I take the higher capacity any day hands down. This coming form a sig fan by the way.

Stay safe.


(why does everyone hate the picatinny rail on the 21sf?)

sig all the way don't like gooks anything pos's

Even if you really want the Glock, you'd be a complete idiot to trade your 220ST for one. The Sig is worth about twice as much, not at all a fair trade. And since you're LEO, you get the discount on the Glock making it dirt cheap.

I agree with others, if you're already doing well with the 220ST, why change? If you feel the need for more capacity, buy the Glock on its own and start practicing. When you can shoot it as well, then trade them out.

Glock NY-1 trigger/Glock LEO discount too...

If you do plan to get a new Glock duty .45acp you should get it with a NY-1 trigger. This was set up by the NY State Police for the issued Glock pistols. A NY-1 trigger allows a smoother, more even pull.

I'd also check the LE sales part of www.glock.com. Glock had offered sworn LEOs a special discount. See the Glock website for details.

RS

How many rounds do you have through the 220STs? Some reports have the extractors on the 220STs being problematic over time.

I've carried Glocks and Sigs on duty. Both are reliable, capable firearms, and I never felt poorly armed with either.

Personally, I strongly prefer the Glock. The extra ammo is a small benefit, but so it weight. The Glock also fits my hand better, and -GASP-, I prefer the Glock's trigger.

However, in your position, I would most likely carry the Sig. You are already familiar with the weapon and have achieved a certain level of comfort with the weapon. I am guessing the Sig has been very reliable for you, and fits your hand well.

IMHO, a Sig that is reliable and fits your hand well is a much better choice than any other pistol that may not fit your hand well. On the other hand, if the Glock fits your hand well, then it would be my choice.

That being said, I recently traded my Sig for a S&W M&P. Go figure.

Although I believe that one of the places where I used to live issued P220s, I see it as having much too long of a trigger reach to be acceptable for general issue. I know it's WAY too long for me.

The 21SF was designed to address the too big grip of the regular 21.

I'm telling you, don't trade it....you'll experience buyer's remorse something fierce:banghead:...Just save up for the Glock and you'll have two good .45s.

My duty gun is a P220r and I don't feel undergunned at all. I love the P220's sweet trigger and I'm super accurate with it. I have 3 mags on my person and a couple extra in my squad bag. If I think there's a good possibility of a gunfight, I'm taking the shotgun or Ar15 anyways...

PS: Don't trade that 200st for the Glock! You'll regret it. Let me know if you're interested in a Sig P245 (the Compact version of the 220) for off duty.

I am a dyed in the wool glock guy but, I am also I big believer in, if you can qualify with it, it ain't a bad choice. There are alot of other depts in my area that use 8rd S&W 4506's so 8rds can't be all that bad.

As a current LEO for large metropolitan department and owner of both here is my experience, take it for what its worth. I started off my career carrying a Sig 220, and did so for about 3 years. After a fellow officer on my squad bought his G21 and I had the chance to fire it numerous times, I made the switch.

Why? For two reasons and two reasons only, number 1 mag capacity. While carrying my Sig I have been in an OIS, I reloaded three mags before suspect was taken down by another officer on the perimeter. People can say what they want about accuracy and shooting skill, try doing it when your heart rate is skyrocketing through the roof and small supersonic bangs are blazing by your head.

Number two weight, after 10 hours on shift getting into and out of a car, the last thing needed is more unecessary weight on the belt. Now as for personal choice to which I feel is better firearm? The 220 in my hands shoots more accurately, and feels a lot more refined. The G21 shoots accurate enough and is every bit as reliable as its namesake has become know throughout the industry.

Whatever you do, dont trade one for the other. They both deserve to be in your inventory IMHO. Glocks w LEO pricing is easily obtainable.

boomsik and r12gs are right in the money. Do not under any circumstances trade a loved P220. You will live to regret it.

That said, I think the Glock edges out the Sig as a patrolman's daily weapon. Keep in mind to that your sidearm will be on you all day, banging into your car door frame, seatbelt post, console, rolling on the ground with fighting suspects, and knocking against just about everything else. It will get rained on and it will probably get dropped at some point. After carrying a Glock for 10 years I can tell you that it will soak up the bumps and bruises like nothing else. You can get rained on and literally not care. (I've seen Sig mags and slides rust after officers were caught in a storm). Glock polymer wears well and has no finish to rub off. The slide might as well be coated with diamonds. They come as close to revolver reliability as possible and weigh as little as a contemporary full size auto pistol can weigh. The magazines are tough and can take all manner of abuse. A Glock would be reliable even if you treated it badly.

Capacity is not number one in my book but an officer that goes into service with 40 rounds of .45 ACP (or in the case of the Glock 22, 46 rounds of .40) is well outfitted.

Check into either LEO pricing on new Glocks or prices on trade in's. The thing with a Glock is that, though you probably wouldn't need to, you could replace every internal part, sans barrel-which also wouldn't likely need replacing, for around $130 retail and have a nearly new weapon. Even a new barrel is not all that much. You can keep a Glock going literally forever for very little money. They are also relatively easy to detail strip to swap out parts.

My Glock is not as much of a pleasure to shoot as my Sig or my 1911 or my P7M8. But I know that it will work every time, it will hit where its pointed and it shrugs off the daily abuse that a police sidearm will receive. I know that it will not rust and it will not break and it wont even look all that bad after years of wear. Keep the P220 and carry a Glock to work.

I'd probably pack the Glock 21 as a more practical duty weapon but I voted Sig Sauer because I don't think you should make the trade.

If you are not working in the heart of some ghetto area I think the Sig Sauer with a good backup will see you thru anyways.

Keep the Sig but carry as many mags as you can fit on your belt I'd say have a quad mag holder on your bely and keep a couple 10 rounders in your war bag. Once your through whatever training you have to endure get the glock. I started my career three years ago carrying a 226 .40. Had some reliability issues so i switched to a 229 in .40. While both were good guns the standard glock 21 i carry now is hands down the best weapon i've ever carried. Between having the extra punch of a .45, the mag capacity and the light weight the glock system is the way to go.

As a current LEO for large metropolitan department and owner of both here is my experience, take it for what its worth. I started off my career carrying a Sig 220, and did so for about 3 years. After a fellow officer on my squad bought his G21 and I had the chance to fire it numerous times, I made the switch.

Why? For two reasons and two reasons only, number 1 mag capacity. While carrying my Sig I have been in an OIS, I reloaded three mags before suspect was taken down by another officer on the perimeter. People can say what they want about accuracy and shooting skill, try doing it when your heart rate is skyrocketing through the roof and small supersonic bangs are blazing by your head.

Number two weight, after 10 hours on shift getting into and out of a car, the last thing needed is more unecessary weight on the belt. Now as for personal choice to which I feel is better firearm? The 220 in my hands shoots more accurately, and feels a lot more refined. The G21 shoots accurate enough and is every bit as reliable as its namesake has become know throughout the industry.

Whatever you do, dont trade one for the other. They both deserve to be in your inventory IMHO. Glocks w LEO pricing is easily obtainable.

Click to expand...

^ He hit the nail on the head ^

I am admittedly not a law enforcement officer (sorry, I know you wanted only them to comment, but it's hard not to... ) but I have enough braincells in my head to know that you want as many rounds in your gun as possible. That is THEE most important thing, when the reliability and accuracy are roughly the same... which they are between Glocks and Sigs.

I say switch to the Glock 21SF, but like others said, don't trade your Sig for one, when you can easily buy a Glock (if LEO, EMS, Fire, Mil, etc.) for roughly $400 brand new! With practice and enough range time, you can easily get just as good shooting with the Glock over time... but you can't get 5 more rounds in your Sig's magazine over time with more practice, now can you?

In the end, Glocks are just more of a simple design when compared to Sig's, as well. And in a highly stressful situation: simple > complex... any day of the week.

Plus, for some fun, you can always convert your Glock 21 into a 10mm Glock... just for some nice "Magnum powered semi-auto" fun at the range, or woods defense pistol.

Check out: www.GlockTalk.com

I love GLOCK pistols, but between those two, much prefer the 220.

TO HMMurdock

Unrelated question, out of curiosity - from what distance can you shoot out the X-ring (per your original post)?