Contacted by BATFE today!! *Update*

He also said that if I did not cooperate he would enter into his report that I refused to cooperate under direction of a lawyer and that I would be receiving a letter in the mail stating that I was not to engage in the business of selling firearms without a licenses and would include an application for an FFL.

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What did your attorney say about that?

Follow the advice of your lawyer.

You are not in that business (I assume from context). So nothing changes because you get a letter, does it?

What's the issue?

What makes them think you might have been dealing in guns without a license? Don't answer me, but be honest with your attorney.

Jim

"that I was not to engage in the business of selling firearms without a licenses and would include an application for an FFL"

Great, fill it out and send it in. Maybe they'll fast track it.

John

now I'm not in the tin foil hat club, but I'd be willing to bet they are going to dig into your back ground. I hope you dotted all your "Is" and crossed all your "Ts"

let your lawyer deal with them...

I was contacted again by one of the agents from the other day, but this time by phone.

I informed him of my decision to take my attorney's advise and decline the interview.

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And the very next words out your mouth should have been if there's nothing further Officer, good day.

I'm not sure what to do.

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Number one you'd better really have a lawyer

Number two tell the Agents that all-further conversation or correspondence goes through him

Send them nothing without an attorney. No matter what letters or forms they give you to sign, acknowledging 'receipt of their concerns', sign nothing.

You will likely be asked to sign a form stating that you won't be a bad boy in the future, but the words in the form will, in legalese, imply that you have done something wrong in the past. I know of one person who has been thru this already.

Sign nothing. Contact the NRA or the local gun rights groups in your state and ask for an attorney referral.

"I'm not sure what to do."

Do nothing. They are going to send you a letter telling you to obey the law. Presuming you already do that, this whole episode has been a non-event.

Tim

It sounds to me like the BATFE is trying to make inroads into areas of the law they have no business in, like fishing for something to hit you with. That not working, now they are trying to intimidate you. Seems they have too many employees with too little legitimate work to do.

Remember, no one in law enforcement has power to ask you for information that would otherwise require a warrant to obtain. These inquiries are unconstitutional. Hence, the veiled threats such as instructing you that you'd better not go into business without a license. This is intimidation.

This is intimidation to keep you in line and not make waves. Sooner or later, I hope someone or some association with the resources and assets takes up this cause. These actions need to be challenged.

When a crime has been committed, then this agency may go ahead and obtain whatever warrants they can justify and proceed from there. My hope, prayer, and goal, however, is to eliminate this agency and all other agencies and bureaucracies of its ilk that are unconstitutional. In my opinion, no agency or bureau is as patently unconstitutional as the "Firearms" and possibly "Explosives" branch(es) of the BATFE. "...(T)he right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is quite clear.

Woody

They are going to send you a letter telling you to obey the law. Presuming you already do that, this whole episode has been a non-event.

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Yes, but then they will ask you to sign and return the letter. They will tell you that your signature is 'just the equivalent of a delivery receipt'. They will tell you that it's just a formality.

But when you read the form, it states that you have been adjudicated by the F Troop to have been inappropriately buying and selling guns. It's a form letter, and it's BAD. Like I said - I know folks to whom this has already occurred. No, I will not break confidence by outing them on this forum.

Do not sign and return anything.

It sounds to me like the BATFE is trying to make inroads into areas of the law they have no business in, like fishing for something to hit you with.

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I suspect, from the wording of the letter they send ("I've been buying and selling guns without a license and may be part of the Mexico issue but will be a good person from this point forward"), that they're trying to drum up 'progress statistics' over the whole Mexico drug war thing.

It might be the right time to ask them what their probable cause was to be pointing a finger at you to begin with. If they did not originally have reason to believe that you were in violation of something, what the hell were they doing to begin with? .........................obviously, no probable cause, no resulting warrant. Your attorney should seek a written apology, ask for a reprimand of the agents or supervisor (for sending them on a goosechase), and an agreement to leave you alone for the rest of your life (o.k., I might be dreaming on that one.....)

Do not fill out any paperwork for 'them.'
Do not talk with them, at all.

I would not answer or sign anything from them, an assume, they will tell you lies, they may not care if your guilty or inocent, they only care about getting something on someone to look good, they won't care if your guilty or inocent, this is what my lawyer told me many years ago. An remember you have already been recorded an every time they call you will be recorded, so try an not get too mad an tell them off.....stand your ground, hang tuff an don't let them intimidate you, let your lawyer do the work, my guess is that when your lawyer contacts them they going to tuck tail an you will never hear from them again. They know their on a dead end, they have just been fishing.....just my 2 cents worth, I'm pulling for ya guy!!!

Do not fill out any paperwork for them.
Do not talk with them, at all.

To be clear: you have already said too much. You have already engaged in conversation that has invited followup verbal threats. You then engaged in more conversation that will, apparently, result in followup written threats. If you don't have a lawyer, then you have lied to them. If you do have a lawyer, you have not listened to his/her advice. Until a warrant shows up at your door, cease conversation. If something shows up in the mail, do not sign it, do not return it. If you do have a lawyer, forward it to your lawyer. Do not talk with them at all.

If you don't have a lawyer, then you have lied to them.

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And the absolute worst thing you could ever do is lie to a federal agent. You'd probably get a stiffer sentence for that than you would from the alleged crime they were investigating.

If you ever go the "my lawyer advised me not to say anything" route, the proper way to do it is, "please direct all questions to my lawyer, John Doe, at 555-5555," and then end the conversation.

If you say, "my lawyer advised me not to talk" and then refuse to give that lawyer's contact information, it sets off red flags that you just lied.

With all due respect to my fellow THRers, I'd seriously suggest that, if you haven't already done so, you immediately hire a lawyer and follow his/her advice, and not the advice of people you don't know on an internet forum. A fair amount of the legal advice posted on THR, and elsewhere on-line, is incorrect. Some of what's been posted in this thread meets that description.

Do not sign and return anything.

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Seconded on that. This is about the 3rd or 4th one of these I've heard of. Take anything they send you straight to your lawyer.

As for the question of what puts someone on their radar for this, it seems to be multiple handgun purchase forms in border states that are kicking off these investigations.

I'd advise steering clear of handgun purchases that kick off the multiple report until this whole Mexico gun thing blows over.

They are looking for someone to "blame".

I'm not sure why you have made such a big deal about it, I have had several people I know go through the same thing. They want want to make sure you are not flipping the guns. If you buy more than two handguns in a week you generally get a call (as of late), I even had a FFL warn me about this. In my case the FFL just suggested I pick up the 2nd handgun the next week so they wouldn't have send in a report. Now you have just created a big hassle for everyone, may end up having to hire an attorney, and you certainlly made yourself look like a person of interest.

Get yourself a P3 telephone recorder. (Voice of experience). Next time you get a call from them, have the recorder ON as you lift the receiver, and immediately place them on-notice that anything they say will be recorded and presented in your defense. Advise them to cease and desist. Advise them that you feel harassed and intimidated, and that henceforth, they are to communicate exclusively with your attorney...period. Send copies to the attorney.

I'm not sure why you have made such a big deal about it, I have had several people I know go through the same thing. They want want to make sure you are not flipping the guns.

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Sorry, that's not what is going on here.

I have seen the wording of the letter they send. It says flat out that you admit dealing firearms without a license and you promise not to do it again.

It's a confession. If you just "play along the nice guy" you will be confessing to a Federal offense.

You wanna gamble with that go ahead, but don't advise anyone else to.

Now you have just created a big hassle for everyone, may end up having to hire an attorney, and you certainlly made yourself look like a person of interest.

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The day you have to be afraid to talk to your attorney, you're toast.

I would seriously consider talking to a lawer, and like everyone above said, stop talking to them (Giving them ammo).

Who says you have to have a lawyer?

Once you invoke your 5th amendment rights they are done asking you any incriminating questions unless you want to talk with or without an attorney present.

The only time they can make you answer questions is if they give you immunity (You better have that in writing.). If you still refuse a judge will order you to answer under the threat of being held in contempt of court and you will usually be placed in a jail until you talk or a judge rescinds the order.

If they want the info bad enough that could be a very long time if you refuse to answer.....9x23