BATF wants to talk to me

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so that big undercover sting they did to take down parts of the Mongols biker club,

You mean the one where they used over 1,500 agents and only took 89 firearms?

That the one you mean?

Model of government efficiency that one..... not really a model of the best use of resources.

No question they were bad dudes but really, that's the best use of ATF you can find?
 
Despite their "policy" or any laws against keeping the make, model and serial of a gun you purchase, I firmly believe that all of the guns you buy through a dealer are in a database someplace.

Even if they aren't there is a papertrail and I suppose you could also be contacted if one of the guns you bought ended up used in a crime or was found on a criminal-type or in a raid or something.

At any rate, if the BATF calls, tell them you'd like a lawyer present and then retain a lawyer competant in Fed gun laws.
 
I'd be inclined to ask them what they're specifically interested in. I can end the interview at any point. Most of the time, they're simply looking to find out why certain things have been done, and with most of us, that's going to be easily explained.
Should we have to explain? Well, let's look at it like a traffic stop, in which the officer asks certain questions. You generally don't have to answer them - but now you'll have created something for which there was no need. A lot of times they might be looking to find out why you're in a particular area when you don't live/work around there. It helps them to know what's going on - and if they were doing it in OUR area, we'd appreciate their diligence.
Now....do I trust BATF? Not as a "blanket statement", no. Because like any other agency/group, a few cowboys can make it run amuck, which is what I view them during the time of Waco (where, at the time of the "raid", the violations the BATF cited were violations of STATE, not Federal law - and they therefore had no enforcement authority) and Ruby Ridge.
Everyone is human - and if you get a cowboy that is considered to be "good", he can go off the deep end. Problem being, a good, dedicated and imaginative agent looks a lot like the cowboy - and he may NEVER consider going beyond his range.
So, yeah - I'll speak with them within limits without concern within certain boundaries. Beyond there, I'll politely tell them I intend to end the interview until such time as I have my attorney present. The BATF agents I've encountered in recent years are far more open-minded and reasonable (within their boundaries) than what I've seen in the past, IMO.
 
well of course they are going to rail against the ATF, what else do you think pro-gun outlets do

OK, one of the former assistant directors of the ATF, Sanders, on retirement became a lawyer representing gun owners unfairly targeted by BATF and has testfied before Congress on ATF abuses.

Reporter Alan Bock for the libertarian magazine Reason wrote in his book "Ambush at Ruby Ridge" (Dickson, 1995) that he met a retired ATF agent at the Ruby Creek Vigil who told him he became an anti-ATF crusader after witnessing abuses by ATF agents.

The US Attorney in charge of the Knoxville TN USAO advised Assitant US Attorneys not to attend the ATF Good O'Boys Roundup if they valued their reputations (years before the Gadsden AL Minutemen exposed the GOB).

Former ATF assistant director, former ATF agent, US Attorney, yep, the usual pro-gun outlets unfairly criticizing the ATF.
 
wow, so that big undercover sting they did to take down parts of the Mongols biker club, who were involved in a number of felony offenses, must be a bad thing then. Wow, amazing
So what you're saying is that if Jeffrey Dahmer had murdered Wayne Williams, he'd have been a good guy?
 
wow, so that big undercover sting they did to take down parts of the Mongols biker club, who were involved in a number of felony offenses, must be a bad thing then. Wow, amazing
Oh yeah, I noticed you omitted the BATF(E)'s documented [long] history of organized racist activity. Is that for the same reason that you don't accept JPFO as a source, even when completely DOCUMENTED?
 
If you pick on the sarcasm, it will never heal.

Frankly, I think it was a valid point. Calling it sarcasm doesn't address the point.

FWIW, the legal system ultimately proved the "case" to be bogus. The "system" even went so far as to oust the DA responsible for the over-exhuberant prosecution.

Lady Justice can be slow, but she usually will prevail.
 
FWIW, the legal system ultimately proved the "case" to be bogus. The "system" even went so far as to oust the DA responsible for the over-exhuberant prosecution

Only because the families were well heeled and could afford high powered law dogs. Had it been a group of people of lesser means then they would now be rotting in jail.
 
Really? How can you say that w/certainty? It became pretty obvious as the case developed that there were huge flaws in it. I think even a blind Public Defender could've worked that one out.
 
FWIW, the legal system ultimately proved the "case" to be bogus. The "system" even went so far as to oust the DA responsible for the over-exhuberant prosecution.

Lady Justice can be slow, but she usually will prevail.

Indeed? The rumor is the Ruby Ridge snipers eventually received a commendation for their acts. Going back even further, the FBI witness tampering at the Pine Ridge and Rosebud Reservations were buried by the Carter administration. Justice seems to follow the convenience of the times.
 
Trust The System?

Officers'Wife said:
Be co-operative and answer their questions, if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide. After all, they are only doing their jobs protecting you.
With all respect to you and your husband (whether he is LEO or Armed Forces) that may well be the most naieve statement I have ever read. I would never voluntarily answer questions by any law enforcement officer at any level from local to Federal. I would rather spend the night in county lockup than risk something I said being taken out of context and used against me. As for trusting the BATF, I don't know about you but I can spell "Ruby Ridge". Regarding trusting any federal LEO agent, I can also spell "Waco" and "Elian Gonzalez". As surely as night follows day, when power is not accompanied by constraints then abuse of that power is inevitable. The ATF is not the only culprit in that respect, either. The IRS is an excellent example of unconstrained power.

But if you really want my opinion on the BATF and other federal agencies, follow this link: http://www.resistnet.com/profiles/blogs/jackboots-lyric

Nuff said.

Cyborg
 
Indeed? The rumor is the Ruby Ridge snipers eventually received a commendation for their acts. Going back even further, the FBI witness tampering at the Pine Ridge and Rosebud Reservations were buried by the Carter administration. Justice seems to follow the convenience of the times.

Sorry - but you're quoting my response to the comments re. the Duke Lacrosse team.

Do I blindly trust? Hell no - please see other comments I've posted w/regards to the BATF's actions both at Ruby Ridge and Waco. David Koresh was probably nuttier'n a fruitcake, but the laws he was ACCUSED of breaking were STATE laws, not Federal. Unfortunately, the gutless wonder governor we had at the time didn't have the cajones to send in the Texas Rangers to escort the Feds away, and take care of our own business.
 
"You mean the one where they used over 1,500 agents and only took 89 firearms?

That the one you mean?
"

texasrifleman, you obviously never worked in LE or were never part of any LE/military operation, never taken part in the planning, and probably watch too much CSI thinking in one hour, with 4 people, an entire criminal enterprise/"bad guy ring" can be taken down LOL Turn the TV off and get a reality check. Let me guess, you think all LE investigations should be like the TV cop shows huh? What a sad state of mind you have.

"Oh yeah, I noticed you omitted the BATF(E)'s documented [long] history of organized racist activity. Is that for the same reason that you don't accept JPFO as a source, even when completely DOCUMENTED?"

Deanimator, shhh, lemme tell ya a secret. go read about those two knucklehead neo-nazis planning to assassinate Obama before the election.......guess what agency was the primary pointman on taking down those neo-Nazi peckerwoods. I'll give ya a hint, it's the same agency you hate in this very thread....I guess that makes the ATF an oxymoron agency, they engaged in racist activities but they took down some bonehead neo-Nazis planning to kill Obama....mmmm, dang, time for you to come up with a new argument, looks like you can't use the racism thing anymore:eek:
 
"The rumor is the Ruby Ridge snipers eventually received a commendation for their acts."

why would anyone defend a member of the Aryan Nations, you do know that good ole' Randy boy subscribes to their teachings and ideology, right?
 
Deanimator, shhh, lemme tell ya a secret. go read about those two knucklehead neo-nazis planning to assassinate Obama before the election.......guess what agency was the primary pointman on taking down those neo-Nazi peckerwoods. I'll give ya a hint, it's the same agency you hate in this very thread....I guess that makes the ATF an oxymoron agency, they engaged in racist activities but they took down some bonehead neo-Nazis planning to kill Obama....mmmm, dang, time for you to come up with a new argument, looks like you can't use the racism thing anymore
Guess what agency was the primary pointman in organizing racially segregated gatherings at which racist literature, some of it calling for violence against Black political figures, was distributed?

Guess what agency allowed it's employees to post in the office "licenses" for the "hunting" of Black people. Actually, those "licenses" didn't say "Black people"? They used a different word, I'm sure that's both well known and approved of by you.

Guess what agency was sued by its own Black employees for racial discrimination and harassment?

I guess it's ok for Federal agents to engage in White supremacist activity so long as they suppress their private sector competitors in the White supremacist movement.

Interesting isn't it, that you both excuse organized White supremacist activity within a Federal agency AND dismiss out of hand documented evidence of institutional perjury within that same agency SOLELY because that evidence was publicized by a group named JEWS for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership?

You remind me of the elderly anti-gunner working as a cleaner in a MacDonalds who berated me for wearing an NRA ballcap. When he called for banning of guns, I noted that the last time that happened, we seem to have misplaced 6,000,000 Jews somewhere. He replied that he didn't see as how that was such a bad thing.

Facts aren't your friends.
 
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