Long Range Threads
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WTBguns10kOK
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We think it's not hunting, because it's not very sporting. Not because we don't do it. Anyone can take a fancy rifle and huge scope and shoot off a rest. Honestly, not that hard.
So you're fighting against those of us who dislike long range hunting when you've killed two deer, at 225 yards? I think most people could shoot 225 yards offhand. That's not particularly long range.
I can shoot past 300 yards, like pretty much everyone else. Doesn't mean it's always sporting/ethical to do that. No need to make blanket accusations.
Somehow I don't think it takes skill to test a bunch of factory loads. Not everyone has the correct situation to reload. Same thing with range. Doesn't take skill to find what range you're accurate to. And glassing. It doesn't take skill to look through binoculars or rangefinders. Find those deer with just your eyes and getting from 750 yards to maybe 100 yards or less? Now that's more like it.
Hunting? Yes, it can take skill to do that...or sometimes there's blind luck in getting really close to an animal. But, you can't do that when you're glassing from 931 yards.
pat86323
Member
"We think it's not hunting, because it's not very sporting. Not because we don't do it. Anyone can take a fancy rifle and huge scope and shoot off a rest. Honestly, not that hard."
Well wtbguns........come on out here and show me how "not that hard" it is, i hunted 7 seasons prior to getting my first mulie. In that time i only saw probably 11 or 12 bucks during seasons. Early on i had limited myself to 200 yards because thats what i was comfortable with. A couple times i was spotted and busted by deer that were far enough away that i couldnt hardly make them out with my naked eye. I would begin my stalk on deer that i had glassed from great distance only to see white patches bouncing up the side of a hill. Spot and stalk hunting in relatively open country is hard.....PERIOD. Being able to shoot at longer distance makes it a feasible thing. Since then ive learned a few tricks and can usually get alot closer. But even with the skills ive aquired over the years, it isnt easy, hell it isnt even hard, it can be damn near impossible. Remember out here in az if you see a good buck it will very very likely be the only one you see that season. We do whatever we can to try to put that buck on the ground, if that means making a 500 yard shot so be it. Please also remember that i will do whatever i can to get within a closer range, it is rarely a feasible option out here.
"It doesn't take skill to look through binoculars or rangefinders."
This is nothing but proof that you have no idea what we are talking about. Ive glassed a rock that looked like it might be a deer for 10 minutes only to look again an hour later and see that it was in fact a deer that was laying still camoflauged into the surroundings that had finally decided to move. If you want to talk about it like you know what you are talking about.....try it.
Come on out and ill put you on a big 5x5 mulie buck that i tried to stalk with my bow 7 times this last archery season. Ill lend you my 10x zoom camera and if you can get close enough to him to get a picture in which you can count points on his massive rack ill be impressed. I happen to know of at least 2 other hunters who are far more experienced then myself that have also failed to close the distance on this guy. I can find him 7 days a week, along with several other people......no one has shot him yet. I got about 150 from him while he had his nose up a does butt.....unfortunately 150 might as well be 800 with a bow and theres no such thing as a rifle rut hunt out here.
Well wtbguns........come on out here and show me how "not that hard" it is, i hunted 7 seasons prior to getting my first mulie. In that time i only saw probably 11 or 12 bucks during seasons. Early on i had limited myself to 200 yards because thats what i was comfortable with. A couple times i was spotted and busted by deer that were far enough away that i couldnt hardly make them out with my naked eye. I would begin my stalk on deer that i had glassed from great distance only to see white patches bouncing up the side of a hill. Spot and stalk hunting in relatively open country is hard.....PERIOD. Being able to shoot at longer distance makes it a feasible thing. Since then ive learned a few tricks and can usually get alot closer. But even with the skills ive aquired over the years, it isnt easy, hell it isnt even hard, it can be damn near impossible. Remember out here in az if you see a good buck it will very very likely be the only one you see that season. We do whatever we can to try to put that buck on the ground, if that means making a 500 yard shot so be it. Please also remember that i will do whatever i can to get within a closer range, it is rarely a feasible option out here.
"It doesn't take skill to look through binoculars or rangefinders."
This is nothing but proof that you have no idea what we are talking about. Ive glassed a rock that looked like it might be a deer for 10 minutes only to look again an hour later and see that it was in fact a deer that was laying still camoflauged into the surroundings that had finally decided to move. If you want to talk about it like you know what you are talking about.....try it.
Come on out and ill put you on a big 5x5 mulie buck that i tried to stalk with my bow 7 times this last archery season. Ill lend you my 10x zoom camera and if you can get close enough to him to get a picture in which you can count points on his massive rack ill be impressed. I happen to know of at least 2 other hunters who are far more experienced then myself that have also failed to close the distance on this guy. I can find him 7 days a week, along with several other people......no one has shot him yet. I got about 150 from him while he had his nose up a does butt.....unfortunately 150 might as well be 800 with a bow and theres no such thing as a rifle rut hunt out here.
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has nothing to do with buying a fancy rifle. you have to have an active knowledge of what will affect the bullet that day. bullet drop, hold over, wind, these are things that you have to have spent months and or years developing the skill to execute them all at one split second. it takes time and practice out in the field in real world situations
This is not a FIGHT. This is a discussion on the ethics involved in long range hunting. if you want to "fight" than you should go to the UFC website!
no everyone can't. The fact that you can is good.
no it takes time, dedication, and precision loads. Most factory loads are not suitable for very long range shooting. even premium ammo has quite a bit of variation. and yes long range shooting takes very much skill and dedication. the fact that you don't see any of this is an indication that you may not be informed on how much skill is involved. try holding steady on a pair of shooting sticks and shoot your limit(whatever distance that is). especially when you have a beautiful specimen out there. it's never easy.
While I do agree that is does take skill to shoot long range. I used to spend as much time as possible shooting praire dogs. Learning my rifle and its likes and dislikes is very rewarding. I think the problem lies in the fact that every internet comando thinks they can shoot 1k. Most have no idea what 1000 yards even looks like let alone has the skills to do it.
I don't know that its tv shows or what; yes the guys from the Best of West make it look easy. Yes there are folks that can do it and can do it well. There however a far more morons that have convinced themselves into believing that they can. The result is wounded game animals, damaged property, damaged reputation of hunters. If you practice you rear off and can hit your target each and every time, plan your shots, and put the game animal before your own pride. More power to you. I am impressed with the skill and dedication.
However most folks have become so jaded from hearing so many blowhards yapping about how great they are. Don't be surprised when things are questioned or taken with a grain of salt.
I don't know that its tv shows or what; yes the guys from the Best of West make it look easy. Yes there are folks that can do it and can do it well. There however a far more morons that have convinced themselves into believing that they can. The result is wounded game animals, damaged property, damaged reputation of hunters. If you practice you rear off and can hit your target each and every time, plan your shots, and put the game animal before your own pride. More power to you. I am impressed with the skill and dedication.
However most folks have become so jaded from hearing so many blowhards yapping about how great they are. Don't be surprised when things are questioned or taken with a grain of salt.
wankerjake
Member
Hey WTBguns, what state do you hunt in? I'm dying to compare the similarities in habitat and deer numbers where we hunt. How many legal deer would you say you see during an average 7 day hunt?
WELL said Pat! It's easy to get close to deer when they travel the same trail every day and come to the same feed plot every day, and you have a gazillion deer in your state, and you can shoot does. These clowns have no idea about deer hunting in Arizona, but they'll go on and on about how it is. Guess what folks, the deer herd in AZ is what most people would call lousy. We actually have to look for our deer, we can't sit a trail and be certain they will come down the path every day.
Of course it isn't, read the rest of the paragraph. I wasn't set up to shoot past that until this year, and I couldn't get a buck in range so I didn't kill one farther away this year. But I know I can do it. I'm no pro at this yet, but I can see that if you want to be successful hunting these deer, down here in this habitat, you're best bet is to be able to poke out there a ways.
I've killed more than 2 deer, only 2 coues deer. The terrain they live in makes it very difficult to get close to them. Yes it is possible, I've done it twice during hunting season. I've killed 5 muleys, 4 were under 50 yards I'd say and the other was like 100-150. One with my bow. It's all about terrain.
Anybody can luck onto a deer in thick cover and the deer herd is large, and make an easy 50 yard shot. Honestly, not that hard. I do it every year with elk.
It takes more skill to do that than it does to sight in an inch high at 100 yards and call it good. If you think it is just as easy to work up a load and make it shoot well enough to kill at 500 yards as it is at 200 yards, then you obviously haven't done it.
So if I understand you correctly, it doesn't take skill to do anything. Everything is easy. By your definition, it must only be sporting to kill deer at under 50 yards with a handgun or bow, maybe after a verbal warning and a warning shot.
Come on out to AZ and sneak up on a deer that is 750 yards away that you spotted with your naked eye, and then sneaking over a canyon or two without the deer seeing you. All they do all day is watch, for you. Across a canyon you can see thru the brush to the other side, but when you get on the same side you can't shoot past 50 yards but you can see thru it. And you can't even see a Coues deer with the naked eye at 400 yards standing, much less 750 yards (unless they are moving maybe). Without binoculars in this country you may as well stay home. You are so clueless about the terrain/flora/deer habits out here that I may as well be explaining this to my mother-in-law
WELL said Pat! It's easy to get close to deer when they travel the same trail every day and come to the same feed plot every day, and you have a gazillion deer in your state, and you can shoot does. These clowns have no idea about deer hunting in Arizona, but they'll go on and on about how it is. Guess what folks, the deer herd in AZ is what most people would call lousy. We actually have to look for our deer, we can't sit a trail and be certain they will come down the path every day.
Of course it isn't, read the rest of the paragraph. I wasn't set up to shoot past that until this year, and I couldn't get a buck in range so I didn't kill one farther away this year. But I know I can do it. I'm no pro at this yet, but I can see that if you want to be successful hunting these deer, down here in this habitat, you're best bet is to be able to poke out there a ways.
I've killed more than 2 deer, only 2 coues deer. The terrain they live in makes it very difficult to get close to them. Yes it is possible, I've done it twice during hunting season. I've killed 5 muleys, 4 were under 50 yards I'd say and the other was like 100-150. One with my bow. It's all about terrain.
Anybody can luck onto a deer in thick cover and the deer herd is large, and make an easy 50 yard shot. Honestly, not that hard. I do it every year with elk.
It takes more skill to do that than it does to sight in an inch high at 100 yards and call it good. If you think it is just as easy to work up a load and make it shoot well enough to kill at 500 yards as it is at 200 yards, then you obviously haven't done it.
So if I understand you correctly, it doesn't take skill to do anything. Everything is easy. By your definition, it must only be sporting to kill deer at under 50 yards with a handgun or bow, maybe after a verbal warning and a warning shot.
Come on out to AZ and sneak up on a deer that is 750 yards away that you spotted with your naked eye, and then sneaking over a canyon or two without the deer seeing you. All they do all day is watch, for you. Across a canyon you can see thru the brush to the other side, but when you get on the same side you can't shoot past 50 yards but you can see thru it. And you can't even see a Coues deer with the naked eye at 400 yards standing, much less 750 yards (unless they are moving maybe). Without binoculars in this country you may as well stay home. You are so clueless about the terrain/flora/deer habits out here that I may as well be explaining this to my mother-in-law
pat86323
Member
There is no doubt that there are lots of idiots out there who talk a big game and play a very small one. However i take offense when someone tells me that what i do is too easy or takes no skill. As i already stated i havent had to take a long range shot yet. But for someone to say that anyone can shoot long range off a rest has obviously never been shooting with other people EVER. I know of quite a few people who cant put up a 3 inch group at 100 let alone 300 even with a rest. Remember dude we dont carry benchrests on our sometimes 5 and 6 mile (or longer) hikes over very steep canyons and rocky nasty country. Its usually using your knee as a rest, or a rock or a tree. Some people use bipods but even a bipod cant make someone who cant shoot well into a marksman.
To be quite frank it seems that you guys back there with your 75-150 yard shots have it easy. Set up treestand over good feeding area and shoot. Now i dont actually believe that its that easy because ive never done it. I know there are quirks and things that make that type of hunting challenging in its own way A western hunting convert (my dad, who grew up in illinois) has told me a thousand times "deer hunting is soo much easier in the midwest" This coming from a guy who has perfected taking 4-600 yard shots. Even with the long range capability that he has he still swears up and down that getting a 50 yard shot on a whitetail in Illinois is easier then getting a 200 yard shot on a mulie in the pinyon juniper vegitation in northern az.
Before you go off telling me how easy i have it, i invite you to come out and show me how easy it is. Id love the learning experience.
To quote jake "Come on out to AZ and sneak up on a deer that is 750 yards away that you spotted with your naked eye, and then sneaking over a canyon or two without the deer seeing you."
Ill go one further, spot one standing still at 300 yards and thats a feat on its own. Next spot one at 750 with binos and close the distance. All i can say is good luck.
To be quite frank it seems that you guys back there with your 75-150 yard shots have it easy. Set up treestand over good feeding area and shoot. Now i dont actually believe that its that easy because ive never done it. I know there are quirks and things that make that type of hunting challenging in its own way A western hunting convert (my dad, who grew up in illinois) has told me a thousand times "deer hunting is soo much easier in the midwest" This coming from a guy who has perfected taking 4-600 yard shots. Even with the long range capability that he has he still swears up and down that getting a 50 yard shot on a whitetail in Illinois is easier then getting a 200 yard shot on a mulie in the pinyon juniper vegitation in northern az.
Before you go off telling me how easy i have it, i invite you to come out and show me how easy it is. Id love the learning experience.
To quote jake "Come on out to AZ and sneak up on a deer that is 750 yards away that you spotted with your naked eye, and then sneaking over a canyon or two without the deer seeing you."
Ill go one further, spot one standing still at 300 yards and thats a feat on its own. Next spot one at 750 with binos and close the distance. All i can say is good luck.
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wankerjake
Member
Pat, man we are on the same page. That post sums it up exactly.
Come on out guys, Coues tags go over-the-counter for the ones that don't fill up in the draw. Same tags I've hunted last few years. Show me how it's done, I could be hunting coyotes instead of practicing with my rifle at long range weeks before the hunt.
Come on out guys, Coues tags go over-the-counter for the ones that don't fill up in the draw. Same tags I've hunted last few years. Show me how it's done, I could be hunting coyotes instead of practicing with my rifle at long range weeks before the hunt.
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pat86323
Member
Fact is, if you want to know why we desire to have rifles that are capable of long shots come hunt. Thats the only way you will understand. Its a totally different type of hunting then what you are talking about. That doesnt make it any less "hunting" or any less "sporting".
Man I envy you guys with all the open country. we have so much farmland out here it's crazy. finding a deer to shoot is no big deal. it's finding a place to hunt that is tough. My uncle and I had a whitetail walk up to our stand at about thirty feet and just stare up at us. he tasted great! I shot a couple and the guys we hunted with all shot a couple. most everyone shot one and all of them but mine were 10-100 yrds. no feeders food plots or anything like that. just CRP land. I would love to go out and hike the open country and shoot long distances. don't know if I could do it, but i think the experience would be awesome. I don't get the hype about a few yrds away. I shot one at 15 feet last year. it's pretty easy around here. still fun though! I'm only speaking of north east MO everywhere is different, but they are pretty plentiful here.. you can get all of them you want with your car. they're like a nuisance around here. I counted about 10 dead deer on I-435 on my way home tonight.(20 min drive)
My neighbor in the middle of the city puts food on his back porch and a herd of 30 just sit under his porch light. It makes me insane! I want to throw a rope around ones neck and drag it inside! so I guess all this is why the thought of a tough hike and a long shot seems challenging to me
My neighbor in the middle of the city puts food on his back porch and a herd of 30 just sit under his porch light. It makes me insane! I want to throw a rope around ones neck and drag it inside! so I guess all this is why the thought of a tough hike and a long shot seems challenging to me
wankerjake
Member
I assure you it's quite sporting, despite what people who have never hunted here will tell you. Even guys who can shoot don't get one every year, most hunts in AZ are tough. They call Coues deer hunting the "poor man's sheep hunt." Come on out!
pat86323
Member
About the only thing in az that i can think of thats easy to hunt is javalina, those things are a little "slow", but they are only easy if you can find em. Start putting in for tags or get a bow and get ready to be very very frustrated and come on out. Theres public land everywhere and more game then you think.
I have had the long range shooting conversations with several game wardens here in Wyoming. They all agree the trend is proving somewhat problematic. Then again, there a lot of problematic activities transpiring in the hunting fields. FWIW, I have shot a lot of big game animals at what many of you would consider "long range". All were clean, ethical kills, taken under ideal (for the range) conditions. With well over a hundred (no exaggeration) big game animals harvested over the years, I have never failed to recover an animal. Furthermore, I haven't missed a big game animal in many, many years. So what is the problem?
WTBguns10kOK
member
Well, I apologize, I think between the 3 of you, you've got me beat, especially in post count. I'm in MT and considering that's it's a little smaller than AZ and much like the midwest thick cover, I see your guys' point. I'd say on the public land I hunt, I'm usually seeing somewhere between 17 and 30 150+ class bucks daily, at very short distances.
Again, I apologize, dude, I'm unfamiliar with hiking many miles and challenging terrain. How can you guys even carry all your other gear that far...and a gun too?
Hangingrock
Member
It sounds like one has to be a masochist capable of enduring self inflicted pain and enjoying it to hunt in the “Wide Open”.
Shucks you could fill a tag out here (that’s five deer per tag) in week or so (by the way you’re allowed two deer a day) and have taken more deer here than a decade of hunting in the “Wide Open”
Like I said in my original blurting of words the terrain/environment determines the conditions of the hunt.
Shucks you could fill a tag out here (that’s five deer per tag) in week or so (by the way you’re allowed two deer a day) and have taken more deer here than a decade of hunting in the “Wide Open”Like I said in my original blurting of words the terrain/environment determines the conditions of the hunt.
pat86323
Member
Well WTBguns, im sorry if i offended you, but if you are in montana and can consistently get shots under 200 yards you must either be one of the best hunters in the world or are hunting somewhere that recieves significantly less pressure (that second one is pretty likely) You also might spend alot of time on a quad/truck patrolling roads. You are still invited to come on out and show me how easy it is to hunt these deer/elk. I would love the education.
Hangingrock, yes hunting the mule coues deer is quite a bit more challenging from my observations. Ever wonder why there arent many buckmasters shows hunting Mule Deer? Probably because they dont want to spend the money to film a bunch of hunts where you are seeing 1 or 2 deer a day. I dont ever recall seeing a coues hunt on tv. You dont have to be a masochist at all. You do have to hike long distances, many times over unforgiving terrain. Blisters happen, cactus happens, but you dont have to like it. Hell most people dont have the steel to do it, and drive roads all day long looking for deer. This his how the majority of 100 yard shots are taken i would guess........thats alot less hunting then glassing and shooting long range. The other option is still hunting, which still produces alot of long shots after you spook one and he runs 300 yards and looks back to see what you are.
Hangingrock, yes hunting the mule coues deer is quite a bit more challenging from my observations. Ever wonder why there arent many buckmasters shows hunting Mule Deer? Probably because they dont want to spend the money to film a bunch of hunts where you are seeing 1 or 2 deer a day. I dont ever recall seeing a coues hunt on tv. You dont have to be a masochist at all. You do have to hike long distances, many times over unforgiving terrain. Blisters happen, cactus happens, but you dont have to like it. Hell most people dont have the steel to do it, and drive roads all day long looking for deer. This his how the majority of 100 yard shots are taken i would guess........thats alot less hunting then glassing and shooting long range. The other option is still hunting, which still produces alot of long shots after you spook one and he runs 300 yards and looks back to see what you are.
wankerjake
Member
You would be completely bored hunting in AZ. I have not seen 17 150" mule deer in my life. More like 5-10. Found a few sheds. They are here, but I don't know where they're at. Buck to doe ration for muleys here is like 10% or something. I've had 40 deer days without seeing even a spike.
Glassing Coues deer all day, I see between 7-30 deer depending on the spot, and I'm lucky to see a buck every day. I have found a number of nice bucks in the off season, but they all disappear during the hunt. I saw 6 bucks in 7 days last year. Mostly spikes and forks. Pitiful, and I was looking hard.
Honestly, I can see your point. If I was seeing 15-30 bucks a day (my God, what a paradise!), I would have a different opinion. Whole different ballgame. I'm serious, anybody wants to come try it is welcome. It's a good time, and it's challenging. We may argue the whole time, but I'll do my best to put you on a buck.
Robert Wilson
Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2009
- Messages
- 402
I agree with the OP.
I take issue with the "sometimes the long shot is the only shot you get" argument. Firstly because I believe it is too often used to excuse poor hunting skills and secondly because hunters always encounter game outside of acceptable range. There have been times that I have seen game animals "across the canyon" at perhaps 3000 yards. Is "well, I couldn't get any closer" an acceptable reason to take a 3000 yard shot?
I also have a bone to pick with the "well, as long as the hunter is skilled enough to pull it off" crowd because I have met far more hunters who thought they could hit at long ranges than hunters who actually could. This is, as pointed out by other posters, at least partially related to the amount of unmitigated bull**** shown on videos and written in magazines. To many of us have read that 500 yard shots are really no big deal - and more to the point, too many of us have believed it. Yes, 500 yard shots can be made reliably by skilled and practiced shooters. Unfortunately, many "long range specialists" seem to think that spending time at "snipershide.com" and spending a bunch of money on a scope are equivalent to extensive real-world practice. Hence the current scourge of three-legged deer...
I take issue with the "sometimes the long shot is the only shot you get" argument. Firstly because I believe it is too often used to excuse poor hunting skills and secondly because hunters always encounter game outside of acceptable range. There have been times that I have seen game animals "across the canyon" at perhaps 3000 yards. Is "well, I couldn't get any closer" an acceptable reason to take a 3000 yard shot?
I also have a bone to pick with the "well, as long as the hunter is skilled enough to pull it off" crowd because I have met far more hunters who thought they could hit at long ranges than hunters who actually could. This is, as pointed out by other posters, at least partially related to the amount of unmitigated bull**** shown on videos and written in magazines. To many of us have read that 500 yard shots are really no big deal - and more to the point, too many of us have believed it. Yes, 500 yard shots can be made reliably by skilled and practiced shooters. Unfortunately, many "long range specialists" seem to think that spending time at "snipershide.com" and spending a bunch of money on a scope are equivalent to extensive real-world practice. Hence the current scourge of three-legged deer...
wilson-
You managed to read this entire thread and gain nothing from it, then make a post that is completely out of the context in which this discussion was being had! bravo my friend... bravo. this discussion is about whether people can, and should take long range shots if the skill has been tested and the precedent has been set for doing so at the range and in real world situations. If you wanna talk about the minority that screws things up than we can have a discussion about all facets of hunting.. stupid is as stupid does.. thats not what we are talking about.
no really I believe you, after blowing a leg clear off, they run through the forest and continue to live! it happens all the time!
You managed to read this entire thread and gain nothing from it, then make a post that is completely out of the context in which this discussion was being had! bravo my friend... bravo. this discussion is about whether people can, and should take long range shots if the skill has been tested and the precedent has been set for doing so at the range and in real world situations. If you wanna talk about the minority that screws things up than we can have a discussion about all facets of hunting.. stupid is as stupid does.. thats not what we are talking about.
really you guys have those? hmmmm.. can you post a picture? or maybe document the percentage of deer that have three legs rather than four! or maybe even five.. sounds like you guys have some really special deer!
no really I believe you, after blowing a leg clear off, they run through the forest and continue to live! it happens all the time!
oh and I would also like to see documentation of one video encouraging people to take shots that are out of their skill level... just one. I've never heard anyone say anything other than to practice till there is no doubt you can take the shot. I've seen idiots butt shoot deer at less than 50 yrds... idiots are idiots... don't lump us all together!
pat86323
Member
Sam, i shoot a remington 700 in 7mm magnum and i prefer 150 grain bullets. The 150s are pretty flat and i have a couple that i like. The berger 168 is what im working on right now to use for next season. The optics arent anything all that special, a leupold vxII 3-9x50 a nice scope but nothing too outrageous.
I agree with Robert wilson on a few things, not every long shot should be taken. If i spot one way out at 3000 yards i wont shoot until i can get within 500. My thought is if you couldnt get within what you were realistically comfortable with you should pass on the shot, and i have several times with my bow (alot less pressure in the archery seasons as well as rut makes it easier to get close, i also mostly still hunt heavy cover with my bow). Im just not comfortable past 40 yards so i watch deer walk. Its a bummer but that is the right thing to do.
I always try to get as close as possible but i will not shy away from a 500 yarder if its all i can get. Ive only made one really long shot on an animal. I spotted a coyote while on my way out target shooting digging on a prairie dog town. I got out of my truck, grabbed my shooting sticks sat down and let one fly at almost 450 yards. I lost sight of him due to recoil, but didnt see him run off so i went to investigate. I busted his shoulder and took both lungs (i think, i didnt cut him open to confirm) I can very consistantly shoot 4-6" groups at 500 on paper, more then adequate to hit a killzone. Why shouldnt i try it if conditions allow for it? If its windy things change, ect ect.
I also have seen some pretty bad shooting at close range, just last year i watched a guy make a shot on a big herd cow that i was watching through binos. The elk walked right out in front of him at no more then 30-40 yards and he shot. He hit her high on the hindquarters and she took off. He trailed her for about 100 yards or so then hiked off the other way. If the scourge of the 3 legged deer is your argument for for not shooting long maybe we should also argue against short shooting. I would be willing to bet that just as many if not more big game animals are wounded within 100 yards as are at 500. I think that when an animal is close buck fever sets in and increases the liklihood of a bad shot. I know that my first ever shot at a deer was at about 60yds and he was looking right at me. I punched a hole in a tree about a foot above his back. My heart was racing and i screwed up. I have always been glad it was a clean miss and have learned from it.
I agree with Robert wilson on a few things, not every long shot should be taken. If i spot one way out at 3000 yards i wont shoot until i can get within 500. My thought is if you couldnt get within what you were realistically comfortable with you should pass on the shot, and i have several times with my bow (alot less pressure in the archery seasons as well as rut makes it easier to get close, i also mostly still hunt heavy cover with my bow). Im just not comfortable past 40 yards so i watch deer walk. Its a bummer but that is the right thing to do.
I always try to get as close as possible but i will not shy away from a 500 yarder if its all i can get. Ive only made one really long shot on an animal. I spotted a coyote while on my way out target shooting digging on a prairie dog town. I got out of my truck, grabbed my shooting sticks sat down and let one fly at almost 450 yards. I lost sight of him due to recoil, but didnt see him run off so i went to investigate. I busted his shoulder and took both lungs (i think, i didnt cut him open to confirm) I can very consistantly shoot 4-6" groups at 500 on paper, more then adequate to hit a killzone. Why shouldnt i try it if conditions allow for it? If its windy things change, ect ect.
I also have seen some pretty bad shooting at close range, just last year i watched a guy make a shot on a big herd cow that i was watching through binos. The elk walked right out in front of him at no more then 30-40 yards and he shot. He hit her high on the hindquarters and she took off. He trailed her for about 100 yards or so then hiked off the other way. If the scourge of the 3 legged deer is your argument for for not shooting long maybe we should also argue against short shooting. I would be willing to bet that just as many if not more big game animals are wounded within 100 yards as are at 500. I think that when an animal is close buck fever sets in and increases the liklihood of a bad shot. I know that my first ever shot at a deer was at about 60yds and he was looking right at me. I punched a hole in a tree about a foot above his back. My heart was racing and i screwed up. I have always been glad it was a clean miss and have learned from it.
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I hunt South Dakota exclusively. I've hunted deer every year since i was old enough to buy a tag (12). I've collected at least one buck for every year I've hunted, ranging from tiny spikes to 180 class mulies, with tons of deer in the 150 area. We also have a significant population of whitetails. At one time mulies were the predominant species, but these days its likely close to a 50/50 distribution. I couldn't help but smile when it was said mulies are a bigger challenge to hunt than whitetails. My experience doesn't match that. With roughly even numbers, I've collected exactly TWO whitetail bucks in my hunting career, as opposed to 20 or more muley bucks(. Also, i've never shot a big game animal at a distance of more than 300 yards.....yet am successful year in, year out, without fail or exception. I don't buy the fact that people "have' to take long shots, or they would never get an opportunity. If you sincerely believe that, you need to brush up on some basic hunting/stalking skills. Furthermore, if 450 yards is the "best shot you'll get".....maybe not getting a shot AT ALL would be the smarter choice to make. If my choices are between a marginal shot i "might" make, or no shot at all....I can wait until a better opportunity comes along.....a freezer thats yet to be empty at the end of season and mounts galore assure me that yes, a better opportunity WILL come along if you do YOUR part in it. I'm content at letting a deer walk away @ 500 yards, knowing that a little effort will get me an opprotunity at a similiar deer at half the range (and I doubt you can show me someone who shoots BETTER at 500 than 250). I was taught to wait for the best shot possible, not to take the first shot I "can" take
I'm sorry, but I had to pick myself up off the floor after reading this. Maybe its true for Arizona, but not for all of "Muely Country". On ANY given evening, I can watch 30-40 mule deer feed from my parent's deck. I could have filled my tag any given morning without getting dressed. We had multiple DAYS of seeing not 20-40 deer, but 100-200 (per DAY, not throughout season) deer this past year. Once the colder weather hit, I had days of seeing over 500 deer within a half hour of driving past winter wheat fields. The reason mule deer hunts aren't featured more often isn't because of a lack of opportunity for footage, but because whitetails are found throughout the nation and nearly everyone has an opprotunity to hunt them, . thmaking them "interesting"" to far more people. In some places there are a LOT of deer...as in way TOO MANY DEER.....in some parts of the country, that certainly includes mule deer!!!!!
I'm sorry, but I had to pick myself up off the floor after reading this. Maybe its true for Arizona, but not for all of "Muely Country". On ANY given evening, I can watch 30-40 mule deer feed from my parent's deck. I could have filled my tag any given morning without getting dressed. We had multiple DAYS of seeing not 20-40 deer, but 100-200 (per DAY, not throughout season) deer this past year. Once the colder weather hit, I had days of seeing over 500 deer within a half hour of driving past winter wheat fields. The reason mule deer hunts aren't featured more often isn't because of a lack of opportunity for footage, but because whitetails are found throughout the nation and nearly everyone has an opprotunity to hunt them, . thmaking them "interesting"" to far more people. In some places there are a LOT of deer...as in way TOO MANY DEER.....in some parts of the country, that certainly includes mule deer!!!!!
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