Long Range Threads

[lizziedog1]

Why are there so many threads here about how far an animal can be shot? This category is called HUNTING. Isn't part of it trying to get as close to the game as possible. It would be refreshing to see someone here ask questions about tactics to get as close as possible to game without spooking it.

I am more impressed by the hunter that is able to get a fifty yard shot then with one that brags about 500 yard shots!

 

[FLAvalanche]

Not always. Sometimes the terrain or the animals awareness just doesn't work in your favor and a long range shot is necessary.

Everyone hunts different. As long as their dropping animals cleanly and quickly what is the difference between a 50 yard shot and a 500 yard shot besides 450 yards?

 

[CZsp01]

Different strokes for different folks

 

[Art Eatman]

For some of us, it's a matter of terrain and vegetation. I'm in wide-open desert mountains, with sparse vegetation. Canyons and ravines; lots of thorns. I have a 16-day mule deer season, and the population density is low. I'm lucky to find one shootable buck in a season.

If it's feasible to get somewhere in the vicinity of "close", sure, I'll do that. But developing the skill to hit Bambi out in Ma Bell country is quite close to being a necessity for me.

Through the years, the closest I've sneaked up on a buck was ten feet. I hit him in the butt with a small rock, just for giggles. My longest kill was 450 yards; one hit, right in the boiler room and DRT.

 

[suzukisam]

Isn't part of it trying to get as close to the game as possible.

why? all of it is trying to get brown down. it takes just as much effort, time, and skill to drop a 1000yrd elk as to shoot one at 10 yrds with a bow. as much skill, but different skill.

I am more impressed by the hunter that is able to get a fifty yard shot then with one that brags about 500 yard shots!

we are impressed by what impresses us. I'm not impressed by tight rope walkers.. seems stupid to me really. doesn't mean I could do it. and it doesn't mean it isn't an amazing skill. I just get sick thinking their gonna fall. what does or doesn't "impress" you is really irrelevant as to whether that ability has value. long range hunting is a complete skill all in itself. and personally it impresses me a lot! farthest I've shot a deer is 200. killed a lot of paper though at 400. last year my bro dropped a whitetail DRT at 350.. I was impressed as heck!

 

[desidog]

That's an interesting observation.

I don't understand that question; much like people who ask how far they can ethically shoot with irons...i mean, forum members are very knowledgeable, but since I've never seen those posters face to face, let alone seen them shoot, I am not qualified to judge their ability. Others might be more clairvoyant than I am; I just have ESPN, no ESP.

Also, it seems to me that the "mall-ninja" culture, ever more pervasive and encouraged and fueled by the aftermarket parts industry, is much more oriented to what is hanging off a gun and/or a new cammo pattern (or military gear) than in things that you can't order over the internet...like woodcraft.

 

[WTBguns10kOK]

I'm with ya LizzieDog. We didn't always have all these fancy guns that shoot 1000 yards, and yet somehow we fought wars, hunted the buffalo to near extinction (sometimes even on the wide open plains!) and a host of other notorious feats with guns. The problem of feeling the need to take unnecessary 500 yard shots is partly perpetuated by awful TV shows where Billy Bob hunts on a high fence ranch, where ironically, it's even less necessary. But whatever.

I'll practice long range, but haven't shot anything over 125 yards yet and don't desire to. It's just not enjoyable. Half the people don't even realize the killing power they lose at such long ranges, too, yet they complain they had a "perfect double lung shot" and it "refused to go down." The art of hunting is being lost with no one noticing.

 

[snakeman]

I agree, but there is something about a longe range shot. I think it's always best to get as close as possible, that's why I have been hunting with a 45/70 and got my eight point at 20 yds. However, there are those times when you just can't get close. So you need to be prepared to make an ethical long range shot for a clean kill. Always be prepared. 400 is my limit.

 

[wankerjake]

Conversely, I'm sick of all the guys who think long range hunting isn't hunting because they don't do it. Here's a picture of the terrain we find Coues deer in out in southern AZ. If you can only shoot 125 yards, you will be hard pressed to kill a buck. You can do it, but you won't get one every year:


I've only killed two coues deer in my day. Shot one at 225 yards, the other was a similar distance, I didn't have a rangefinder back then. If I had been set up to shoot farther then like I am now, I'd have killed more. My dad can only shoot out to like 200 yards and guess how many deer he's killed out here (2 less than me). Just because the farthest shot you can possibly take in the Alabammy forests is 150 yards doesn't mean there is different vegetation and different terrain that other folks hunt animals in. Just because YOU can't shoot past 300 yards doesn't mean that I can't.

Here's another picture. The pile of white rocks on the closest hill past the binoculars is around 400 yards. Once you get on the same hillside as the deer it is thick enough you'd have to jump them and take a running shot. What's more ethical? Shooting at running deer off-hand at 80 yards or standing deer with a rest and rangefinder at 400 yards? Of course the skill level of the shooter is the main determinant, not just the yardage.


It takes SKILL to develop a load, figure out your maximum range, find a good spot, glass your arse off until you find a little 100 pound deer in the vegetation, and make a good shot. That's all there is to it. Just cause you can't doesn't mean others shouldn't.

I am in agreement with you on one aspect though; there is a right way to do it and there is guessing. One leads to a high recovery rate, the other doesn't. And that's the one that happens the most.

 

[35 Whelen]

I think what lizzie refers to is hunters who ONLY seek long shots. To me, that's not hunting, that's shooting. Some hunting necessitates long shots as wanderjake pointed out. However, there's too many people out there who are happy as can be to fling bullets at distant game. TV hunting shows and youtube perpetuate this garbage.
I have a 600 yd. range at the house that I use to practice High Power. The target is 36" in diameter to facilitate the use of iron sights. Hitting it with my K-31 is really no big deal and shooting decent groups isn't too difficult, provided the wind is calm or at least steady. Factor in a gusty or variable wind however, and it's an entirely different matter. And so it is with shooting at game at long ranges.
That is why I maintain that there are FAR more game animals missed or wounded at long ranges than most long range "hunters" will admit.
There's simply more to shooting game at long range than whether or not an individual can hit it. A couple of elk seasons ago, I watched a VERY nice 6x6 spar with a smaller bull at a lasered 514 yds. I probably could have hit him, but since they were in a small opening across a basin, I felt it would be irresponsible as even with a good hit the bull likely would have made it into the cover where finding him would have been difficult at best. I passed and within a half hour shot another bull at 355 yds. which for me personally is on the edge of too far for such a large animal.
Just because you can hit a deer or whatever at 600 yds. doesn't mean you should go flinging bullets at game at extended ranges.
35W

 

[suzukisam]

there's too many people out there who are happy as can be to fling bullets at distant game. TV hunting shows and youtube perpetuate this garbage.

I study long range shooting and handloading for it. I don't hunt that way yet cause my skills past 300 are not yet what I want them to be. having said this, I don't see anyone on tv "perpetuating", "flinging" lead. no body says you have to hunt this way, however if a hard core cap and ball shooter chimes in here, he's gonna tell you how you don't Need" those conical bullets, brass cases, and primers. I mean we got by for years without all those fancy new-fangled calibers like 30-06, and 45-70.. this whole argument is realative to your perceptoin.

Just because you can hit a deer or whatever at 600 yds. doesn't mean you should go flinging bullets at game at extended ranges.

so if you have the skills to do it then you definitely shouldn't? so if I can shoot an inch and a half group at say 300yrds, why shouldn't I shoots a yote? who desides how far is too far?

That is why I maintain that there are FAR more game animals missed or wounded at long ranges than most long range "hunters" will admit.

would love to see some facts to prove this. not to mention if the possibility of wounding an animal and not finding it bothers you this bad, hunting isn't your cup of tea. I don't think it's a good thing, but hunt long enough and a duck is gonna get winged and fly in the weeds, or a squirrel is gonna live long enough to get into his nest and die... it just happens. I don't like it either but they are just animals.

 

[jbkebert]

I am a little torn on the argument. Rifle hunting does not have the appeal to me that it used to. In this area which is very close to your Suzukiman I can't think of a single area I could not get within 100 yards of a game animal. I do practice long range shooting and I do handload but in this part of Kansas or Western MO it is really not needed.

I am a die hard bowhunter while it takes a diffrent set of skills like pointed out earlier it is my prefered method. I have taken 20+ deer, hogs, elk, blackbear, audad, and numerous other critters inside 15yards. So as a whole at least in this neck of the woods there is no need to take a long shot. If you feel that its needed perhaps a little time practicing woodsmanship to go along with the long range practice.

 

[pat86323]

I hunt out in pretty open country alot of the time, i have never had to take a shot longer then 250yards. If i have a reasonable chance of closing the distance to 200 or less yards you bet ill do my best to get as close as i can, but out here in this open country it isnt always possible. If i get an opportunity to get within shorter range i will always take it, if i spot something at 400-500 yards and dont see a good way to get any closer i will take the shot. I practice long range shooting and have seen some very lethal shots at long range most notably on a good sized cow elk at just over 600 yards...... My dad spotted her on a wide open grassy slope, no real way to get close so he rested against one of the 3 trees between him and the elk and bang. That elk never even thought about taking another step just flopped and rolled down the side of the hill. If you have the skill and tools to do the job why not? I dont feel like he made an unethical shot nor do i feel that taking a long shot makes him any less of a "hunter" if he had the choice between a 100 yard shot and a 500 yard shot im pretty positive hed shoot the 100 yarder. Sometimes the conditions do not allow it. Wankerjake is correct, i feel a 400 yard shot with the proper skill and tool is far more ethical then trying to jump one up and take a running shot.

 

[35 Whelen]

so if you have the skills to do it then you definitely shouldn't? so if I can shoot an inch and a half group at say 300yrds, why shouldn't I shoots a yote? who desides how far is too far?

As you someday will see, there's so much more to hitting game at long ranges than skill. For example, do you know how much your bullet drifts at 600 yds. in a 10 mph breeze? (Quick...find an on-line ballistics calculator) Good! Now, see what happens if you misjudge the wind by 5 mph or worse yet, 10 mph. Oops....now we've probably missed or worse yet gut shot an animal. Remember, most people here are telling you they "can't" get closer, which means a lack of vegetation. How vegetation is moving is what most people use to judge wind velocity.
An 1 1/2" group at 300 yds. is very impressive, but you probably won't be hunting from a bench with sandbags, so the groups says little more than you have an accurate rifle. I'll promise you it's much easier to hit at long ranges sitting at your keyboard than it is in the field.

would love to see some facts to prove this.

You won't see facts because people don't like to admit when they miss. Go out and shoot long range WITHOUT the bench. I promise you'll gather more facts in that manner than you will any other way. I'll promise you it's much easier to hit at long ranges sitting at your keyboard than it is in the field.

not to mention if the possibility of wounding an animal and not finding it bothers you this bad, hunting isn't your cup of tea. I don't think it's a good thing, but hunt long enough and a duck is gonna get winged and fly in the weeds, or a squirrel is gonna live long enough to get into his nest and die... it just happens. I don't like it either but they are just animals.

Nice....very nice....the above three sentences say alot about you. Do you understand ETHICS and personal responsibility? Any hunter who ISN'T bothered by wounding and losing an animal concerns me. And for you to tell me that being bothered by wounding and losing an animal means hunting isn't my cup of tea is plain stupid. I've been hunting since I was a small boy, over 40 years now, and the older I get, the more it bothers me. "It just happens" is an equally stupid statement. True, sometimes things happen that are beyond a hunters control that contribute to wounded game. That I can accept, but not shooting at game at stupid long ranges IS within our control.

Sometimes we as hunters have the entitlement mentality. We bought a tag, so we somehow "deserve" an animal even if it means taking an irresponsible shot.

35W

 

[Davek1977]

. not to mention if the possibility of wounding an animal and not finding it bothers you this bad, hunting isn't your cup of tea. I don't think it's a good thing, but hunt long enough and a duck is gonna get winged and fly in the weeds, or a squirrel is gonna live long enough to get into his nest and die... it just happens. I don't like it either but they are just animals.

I disagree with that sentiment. Losing a game animal tears me up, whether its a trophy deer or a single sharptail grouse. I don't think that "hutning isn't my cup of tea" because i feel losing an animal is a tragedy. been doing it my whole life, lost a few animals, felt bad about it, but moved on. Having an emotional gut reaction to losing an animal is nothing to be ashamed of, and if it DID NOT bother me, I don't believe I'd have any business being afield. The fact that some animals are lost regardless of distance is NOT a valid argument for long distance shooting. if you can not be ASSURED of killing the animal humanely, you simply have NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER taking the shot...period. It doesn't matter if that 450 yd shot is "the only shot you may get all year". If it is, but you aren't fully confident of making a killshot, go a year without taking a shot. I'd rather go deerless than know i left a deer to die a slow, painful death because of my overconfidence and excitement at finally "getting a shot". I've killed deer every year I've hunted, from 12 right on thru 33.....and I've yet to believe a 500 yd shot would be necessary to put venison in the freezer.....

 

[Hangingrock]

I’m surrounded by hardwoods and tobacco/soybean fields. The land you’re on dictates the parameters of the hunt. Since I don’t live in the wide open it’s not a necessity to place long distance shots. We’re allowed five deer per tag here. Fill your tag out and buy another tag. (It should be said I no longer hunt but allow hunting on the property.)

I discourage certain shooting situations by applying a simple rule shots taken must equate to deer taken. Since we have an abundance of deer there have been no issues. Our guest hunters appear to pass on questionable shots and that’s the way it’s been since I acquired the property.

IF I lived in the wide open my experience and thoughts would be influenced by the hunting environment. There are those among us that can and do oppose to those that can’t but do.

 

[shaggy430]

If you practice and you can make the shot, what's the problem? If it's not your thing, then don't do it. I'm sick of hunters putting down how other hunters choose to legally hunt. The anti's want us to fight.

This category is called HUNTING.

Exactly. Just because others choose to hunt a different way doesn't mean that your way is right or better. Personally, I've killed most of the animals that I've taken at 50 yards or less, but if an opportunity presents itself out to 300 yards or slightly more then I feel confident taking that shot because I've practiced and know my skills and my limitations.

 

[suzukisam]

you both took that way out of context i made it very clear I dislike the thought of losing game. I've only ever lost a couple doves, and a duck, and I hated it. but the truth is that it is a reality that could happen. new hunters, youth, bow hunting, they all have major risks, especially for those getting started. and no you don't know anything about me though you have many presumtions.

oh and I don't have any sand bags.. actually never even used any before. I guess I never really needed them. could I borrow yours I might like them. I could probably bring my groups in a little with some.

 

[desidog]

. not to mention if the possibility of wounding an animal and not finding it bothers you this bad, hunting isn't your cup of tea. I don't think it's a good thing, but hunt long enough and a duck is gonna get winged and fly in the weeds, or a squirrel is gonna live long enough to get into his nest and die... it just happens. I don't like it either but they are just animals.

Quite frankly, the post i quoted from appalls me.

"it just happens" NO. It does not "just happen." It takes an incompetent, irresponsible and/or unethical person to make that course of events happen.

"but they are just animals."...people are animals too.

 

[gamestalker]

I'm deffinitely someone who enjoys the long range shot, but this was different. I had glassed up a nice buck about a mile away and set up for the long shot of around 500 yds.. After the shot I went to look for him or sign and had clearly missed him completely. So I followed his tracks very slowly and then heard his hooves shuffle, when I looked in front of me, he was standing maybe 10 feet away. I had a scoped .270 win. and just looked down the barrel putting one right through the pump station. He was so close to me that when I shot him I got blood splater on me! How is that for close?

 

[suzukisam]

So are you.

okay? Hunting people is illegal, because we are not the same thing. I am human. and now your equating hunting to murder. If you guys want to have an educated debate on hunting at long ranges I will be happy to banter back and forth. but if you guys are going to call names and say killing people is the same thing, than I'll graciously bow out of this thread.

 

[gamestalker]

You are glassing in unit 36A. I know that exact same spot you are in and have killed a lot couse deer and mule deer in that area. I also like 36B for the couse. I'll bet my Son or I know you. We camped for a week in 36A for the November mule deer hunt and then camped for a week in January for the archery hunt.

 

[desidog]

suzukisam,

I hunted Taliban for two years in Afghanistan. I took some very long shots. Further than i'd pop at a deer... and, ethically, i wouldn't bracket a deer...or use a 50BMG.

Humans are animals. Much like everything else that lives on this world and breathes.

I was not name calling. Simply suggesting that the connection between you and your quarry is closer than you think.

 

[suzukisam]

again if you guys want to keep this civil I will debate this with you.

Quite frankly, the post i quoted from appalls me.

"it just happens" NO. It does not "just happen." It takes an irresponsible and unethical person to make that course of events happen.

this isn't true always. there are times when things happen. I'll give an example my bro and i were hunting with power belt muzzle loader bullets. the bullet failed. At 20 yrds the bullet blew up on a rib and litterally shattered to pieces. the deer was mortaly but we ddn't find it till days later. there was nothing unethically done. Short range shot, precise aiming. He also had a deer run away with a broadhead through his heart. almost didn't find that one either(but we did). things happen. I will ruin my days hunt to find an animal if I think there is any chance I wounded it..even a chance. But yes as dissapointed as I am, for me and the animal, I'm still going to hunt the next day if i don't find it, and feel I've exhausted all my resources to do so. Because in the end it is just an animal. it's not a human. WE are very different.

desidog- thank you for your service I have much respect for you in that! I know you didn't call me any names but I was called stupid by another

 

[suzukisam]

and just to be very clear I think that no one should take a shot in the field at any distance if the have not first proven at the range in practice that this is well within their skill set. having said that the range at which animals can be taken is only limited to ones skills WHICH INCLUDES, a knowledge of wind, bullet rotation, drop, and even at what velocity the bullet in question will effectively make the kill. See whelen automatically assumed I was "stupid" I am actually far more knowledgeable than I am skillful. I am slowly raising my skill level. which is why I currently limit myself to 300 yrds in the field. I kill paper much past that though. usually cleanly harvested too(deep sighs from the crowd)