Hunting?...shooting game at long range....I have a few questions

[deerhunter61]

All,

First please refrain from turning this thread into a bashing thread or an ethics thread. We all have our own ethical standards and this thread is not to try and define this from an ethical standpoint.

Let me define what I consider a long range shot at game, I am not talking about varmits, I am talking about Deer, Elk etc.

I believe anything over 400 yards is long range.

Anything over 600 yards is extremely long range.

First for those who do shoot game at long/extremely long range...why? What motivates you to shoot at animals at this distance? What is your background? I am curious how many have been in the military etc.

How much practice have you put in at these distances before you have actually went into the field and took shots at these distances?

Before you actually went into the field to shoot at game at long range did you set a goal for yourself on the practice range that you had to accomplish first? For example a 4-6 inch group at 600 yards etc?

Do you hunt alone? Or do you hunt with a partner?

Before you shoot do you consider how you will track game when you shoot it at this distance? Is this something that is all or nothing? In other words if it runs do you even try to track it? or do you assume you have missed it? For those who have made a shot like this or have taken a shot like this what is your tracking process. At ranges in excess of 200 yards it can get a little difficult to identify exactly where the animal was when you shot it so I am wondering how you go about identifing where the animal was when you shot it at distances in excess of 600 yards?

What are the varibles you take into consideration before you shoot at a distance like this? Are there conditions that would prevent you from taking a long range shot that you would ordinarily take? If so what are they?

What type of rifle and what caliber do you use? What type of ammo? Factory or handloads?

What type of scope? What magnification do you have on the rifle? What magnification do you use to shoot at this distance?

How many game animals have you been able to harvest at long range distances?

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I believe anything over 400 yards is long range.

Anything over 600 yards is extremely long range.

Not with you on this one; not even close. I believe anything over 275-300 yards is "long range", and anything over 400 yards is "extremely long range", when it comes to hunting. Anything past 500-550 should just not ever ever be attempted, even under perfect conditions (no wind, shooting from a field bench, large bedded animal, etc.), unless shooting at varmints. It's just not fair to the mammal to risk wounding like that.

This belongs in the hunting forum.

 

[deerhunter61]

Doc,

I agree this belongs in the hunting and realized it right after I posted it. If someone can move it that would be great.

I do understand what you are saying about the ranges...and for me I do not believe I would take a shot over 300 yards at anything other than varmits but I would not hesitate to take a shot out to 300 yards in the right conditions. Beyond that...no

But although I am a pretty decent shot I know there are a lot of people out there that making a 400 yard shot based on their ability is no different than me taking a 250-300 yard shot. They are simply that good. I also understand the varibles that exist that can alter aim point etc.

I am simply trying to understand what motivates those that do shoot long range.

 

[jbkebert]

It agree with the both of you my self imposed limit on big game is 300 yards. I feel that I am a pretty decent shot with a rifle. I am military trained, spending 4 years at the SDM-R for my infantry unit. I feel to many people are trying to shoot from these distances. Buying a high-end scope with a balistic plex does not mean you can shoot 600 yards. I practice as much as possible from distances up to 650. We set up a range here at home where I can do this without going to a range. I am confident that I could pull off a shot on a big game animal from that distance that doesn't mean that I will. When did hunting go from spot and stalk to spot and shoot? I am primarily a bow-hunter and am quite proud of this. If one can take a deer or elk from 30 yards with a bow there is no reason you can't get closer than 400 yards with a rifle. Use the conditons that would keep you from taking a shot from long distance to your advantage. High winds, rain ect are your friend if you use them to your advantage. We should push ourselves to be a better hunters and a better woodsman not just a better rifleman.

 

[hossdaniels]

I practice out to 500 on a fairly regular basis, as of yet I haven' t had to take a shot on a animal past 375 yds. I determine my maximum range by the distance I can shoot a 5" group under field conditions. Most of the time with my 270, thats up to 450 yards if there is no/little wind.

That changes depending on the weapon. My muzzleloader max range is 300 yds(smokeless), my handgun max range is 40 yards(still learning that creature).

I'm not military, just a good ol boy. A 3-9x is all the scope I am capable of using in the field. You are right about the tracking, you better know exactly where that critter was when you shot. Its hard to pick it a trail if you dont know where to start.

 

[~z]

First, allow me to say I generally don’t respond to these types of posts anymore as they usually turn into a pissing contest about ethics. Mr. Deerhunter has asked that this not head down that road, I hope it doesn’t. To answer your questions:

I believe long range depends a lot on the caliber you are shooting, 200yds is nothing with a 30-06, do it with a .22lr and it becomes long range. I define long range as the distance where you have to compensate for the effects of wind and gravity. And extreme long range would be … well I guess I don’t have a good definition of that.

Why? I do a fair amount of cull hunting; we target specific animals, varmints, and feral hogs in open areas and many shots are presented at long ranges.

As for my background, I don’t think that is pertinent to the remainder of my answers.

How much practice? 3rd barrel on my current long range rifle.

Goals? Yes, I develop the most accurate ammo I can and practice under field conditions (not off a bench) and most important, practice on crappy days. Goal is to keep all shots within .5 MOA

All my long range hunting is done with a partner who I shoot with very often, an avid hunter and a hell of an eye on the spotting scope. We alternate between shooting and spotting.

As for tracking, most shots do not involve tracking, high shoulder shots. We are generally shooting over large open areas and take the shot on our terms (not on critters along tree lines adjacent to large wooded areas). If tracking is necessary, the spotter locks the scope on the location of the shot and the shooter walks in and is guided by hand signals to the area. After that it is just like any other tracking.

Variables? Measure the range, angle of the shot and wind. Dial it in and wait for the opportunity to present itself. Monitor the behavior of the animal, check with your buddy who is watching through the spotting scope and helping read the wind.

What prevents you from taking the shot? In a word: wind. I also limit myself to my “comfort zone” and don’t take a shot I am not certain I can make.

Rifle scope ammo… I shoot a Rem 700 with a 33” Shilen barrel chambered in 300WM topped with a 20MOA base and a Leupold 6.5-20 Most shots are on 20X unless mirage is heavy. Bullets are my handloads, usually 168-190gn SMKs running above 3000fps.

How many game animals? Not nearly game animals as varmints and feral hogs.

 

[testar77]

Not with you on this one; not even close. I believe anything over 275-300 yards is "long range", and anything over 400 yards is "extremely long range", when it comes to hunting.

I gotta agree there. The longest shot I have taken at a deer was around 320-340yds and that's about as comfortable as I feel.



Toby

 

[~z]

That is the best idea, work inside your comfort level. Never challenge yourself in the field, challenge yourself at the range.
~z

 

[Harve Curry]

At any distance you have to know exactly what your firearm is doing on paper. Both from a solid rest and from a hunting postion. If all goes well that builds confidence in what you can do.
I used to shoot hunter silouette. You probably know that's from a standing postion. I would sight in on paper with the only rifle I had was my Savage 99A in 308 with a K3-Weaver. With that rifle I shot a coues deer at 625 yards, but 45 degrees downhill, I thought it was 500 yards. I went back and ranged it later. Early morning, no wind. One shot one kill and I was home before lunch. Since then I been hunting with iron sighted 45-70 and my long range is 178 yards.
So the distance is what you have already proven to yourself on paper over a period of time.

 

[MCgunner]

I don't get to practice over 300 yards. I keep my shots under 400. I can hit all day long at 400 and in given good conditions like little wind. I'll shorten that limit if it's windy to under 300. That's just me. Others that practice at long range are more competent in shooting that far than I am. I don't really see anything wrong with it if they know the range (laser range finders are available even at Walmart now days), can handle doping whatever wind there might be, and the inclination of the shot is minimal (some laser range finders even compensate for THAT now days). I just don't practice it and; therefore, don't take those long range shots, just try to get closer. My rangefinder only reads to 400 yards, no need for more.

 

[Geno]

My longest shot was at 525 yards. My standard for deciding the distance to which I was comfortable shooting a deer was how far could I consistently hit water-filled, 2-liter pop bottles. I was able to hit 6 of 6 at 500 yards. I took my practice shots year-round at that distance. To me, it was purely a matter of knowing my equipment and my consistent ability.

 

[~z]

Here is a picture of our range, we can practice as far as necessary. If you look real close you will see the steel targets: 2 12" targets at 500yds, an 18" at 750 and 1000, and a 22" at 1500 & 1 mi. Good times!
~z

 

[MCgunner]

Yeah, our range don't have much room, but hey, it's only 30 bucks a year. LOL! We've got it pretty danged nice, too, covered concrete shooting area with 6" thick cast re-enforced concrete shooting benches on 4" pipe stands bolted to the pad and covered with carpet, world class shooting benches. The handgun range is super nice, too. We have up to 200 yards. To shoot 300, I have to back off to the entrance gate and shoot off the hood. LOL Of course, I can only do that if I'm the only one there, which ain't hard to accomplish during the week. I've been in that club now since about 1984, got friends in it. Have no desire to go to Victoria for a range trip, anyway, and they want 200 a year or something over there. Besides, on my place, I can't see a deer past 200 yards unless it's over on the ranch next to me where they've knocked down all the brush and it's grazed to the ground. But, that wouldn't be a legal shot. I used to hunt a lot out west, though, but that was before I could buy a Laser range finder. Range finders have REALLY helped out the long range shooter. Ranging has to be precise at those long ranges. Hell, they even have scopes with build in lasers now days and if I was still hunting New Mexico and West Texas, I'd be saving my beens for one. They run around 800 bucks.

BTW, is that a Papst Blue Ribbon can on the ground? ROFL!

 

[deerhunter61]

~z,

That is a pretty nice set up. Do you have a spotting scope with enough magnification to see where you hit? Or do you have to go to the targets? If you go to the targets how many rounds do you fire before going down range?

 

[MCgunner]

Yeah, and when you go down range, do you have to wear rock climbing gear? ROFL! That's a pretty "open range" ya got there....okay, stupid pun.

 

[~z]

Paint the targets white and you can see your impacts through the rifle scope out to 1500, at a mile if the marage isnt bad. But yes, we use spotting scopes. We usually shoot all day without checking/painting the targets. You can hear hits and we usually diagram the targets on our dope books so you know where each bullet impacts. Besides, all day shooting is usually 40-50 "cold barel" shots. It takes a bit of time to read the wind and we try our very best to put every shot on steel.
The best part is at 1K and beyond, you can spot your own shots, once you reform after recoil you can pickup your own trace and watch the bullet impact. Then about 3 sec later you hear the ring of the steel. Sounds like someone taking a wooden spoon to a cast iron skillet.
~z

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

~z,

That is a pretty nice set up.

+1, to say the least! Wow, ~z, that is just "flat out" awesome; very jealous. No wonder you're very adept at making long shots under field conditions! I wanna know what spotting scope you use to see the 1 mile target.

 

[MCgunner]

I wanna know what spotting scope you use to see the 1 mile target.

Mount Palomar has the other one.

 

[~z]

Nothing fancy, with the targets painted the bullet splash is quite large; I have used a variety of spotting scopes from Leupolds to Swift and have found I can get by very well with a Burris XTS 2575. It is very compact and fits in my little shootin bag (killin purse as my buddy calls it). Here is a picture of a good day; I went 38 out of 40 at 1500 with some challenging and variable winds. That little rise above my head is where we shoot from.

I would like to note I do not shoot game at this distance, however if I could consistently shrink the group by ½ I would not hesitate to try.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

"killin purse", tee hee.

 

[deerhunter61]

~z...that is some kinda good shootin! What is the rifle you used?

 

[deerhunter61]

Well today I am going to go shoot what I consider pretty long range, 500 yds, to see how my rifles perform and also to see how I perform. I have never really shot at this range before so I am really looking forward to it. We are going to start by shooting them at 300 yards and then moving back to 500 yards.

I do have some concerns simply because when I was shooting last night verifying that my rifles were still sighted in the groups, 5 shot groups, of all but one of my rifles were about an inch and a half at 100 yards. Not exactly what I was looking for. My 300 Mag did shoot pretty well though. The 3 shot group for it was less than .25 MOA.

Here are the calibers I will be shooting:

300 Mag - this is one bad boy...it will flat outshoot the shooter
7 Mag - has always been my favorite but lately it has not shot as well as it did in the past.
6.5x55 Swede - this is my new favorite although I still have not found a bullet powder combo that shoots less than one inch
22-250 - this one is just fun to shoot and it is still the most accurate of the bunch at 100 yards.

 

[ojibweindian]

So how'd it go?

 

[deerhunter61]

Well not too bad considering this was the first time I have ever shot at 500 yards. The first time I fired 3 rounds out of my 300 Mag I shot a 4 inch group. Considering the wind was gusting 10-15 miles per hour from my left I was not too unhappy with the results. The next time I shot the wind had picked up even more and the I had two rounds with in 1 1/2 inch but the third round was about 6 inches to the right so I was not too happy with that group. I also shot my 22-250 but the wind was brutal on that round. I did not fire the other two rifles...the wind just started kicking up too much and I decided all I was going to do at this point was waste ammo.

I did have a good time though and I definately need to practice more at this range. I will say that I do not think I will ever take a shot at a deer at 500 yards.

I shot three rounds at 300 yards out of my 300 mag and it shot a 2 1/2 inch group there. I would not have any qualms about shooting a deer out to 300 yards but not much further than that.

 

[Ankeny]

I am simply trying to understand what motivates those that do shoot long range.

Depending on the terrain, long range might be the norm. My brother and I crawled though sage brush and rocks for the better part of an hour last fall to close the distance on a heard of elk. We managed to get just shy of 400 yards. With the proper gear, lots of preparation, and the right field conditions, 400 yards isn't a big deal.

FWIW, we both had a license and we both set up on the same animal. The range was known, scopes dialed, and a zero value wind. Considering the thousands of rounds we shoot at long ranges year round, there never was a question of ethics. Also, the type of open terrain that dictates a long shot lends itself to recovery.