If you're swept by a loaded gun (or one that is likely to be)

First time ... some gentle, discrete advise not to do that again.

Second time ... very loud, very non-discrete advice not to do that again.

If even that doesn't work ... I leave ... and let whom ever owns the store or is hosting the function know why.

I am usually not so polite about it. In my experience, embarrassment is an extremely good teacher.

We all know what happens in gun shops and at shows, where muzzle sweeps are sadly common but relatively inccouous given the rules at such venues.

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Pet Peeve: At gunshows, at least the ones I attend, with the venders alligned row after row, with customer access from all sides, it is impossible not to sweep someone with a muzzle while examining a firarm. Merely placing it on the counter sweeps someone at a crowded venue.

...we are not talking about gun store/gun show sweeping. Sometimes it cant be helped, but it is generally safe because the gun is usually unloaded. We are talking about a known loaded weapon sweeping another person like can happen at a shooting range.

Creature said:

I am usually not so polite about it. In my experience, embarrassment is an extremely good teacher.

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Very true
And yes, most shows do not have a single square foot in them where you can stand and not have <5 guns pointed at you.

Creature said:

I am usually not so polite about it. In my experience, embarrassment is an extremely good teacher.

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I'm a patient and level-headed guy in most cases. But, for gun safety this is the approach I take.

At a range, or while in the field, its unacceptable. Being rude, does nothing but create spite. That does not mean lighten the gravity of the situation.
Now I've been in a gun shop with a 1911 laying flat sideways in my palm, while examining it, and had some guy 10 feet down the counter shout at me about it. I told him to find a new hobby cause he's got 400 other guns in the case pointed right at him.
Now I have seen and employee at a certain gander mountain point a display gun directly at a customer to demonstrate the trigger to another customer. He was sharply scolded, cuase that's just wrong. No excuse for it.

Being rude, does nothing but create spite.

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I consider the person who is sweeping me to be rude and, at the very least, inconsiderate. I am of the opinion that everyone on and behind the firing line should know that this person is acting unsafely. Usually the embarrassment of being called out usually corrects the behavior. For a very long time. If that saves a life, I consider it a win for everyone.

I told him to find a new hobby cause he's got 400 other guns in the case pointed right at him.

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A cased gun is far less likely to be as dangerous as a person who is handling a gun unsafely by pointing it directly at you.

I understand your point, and it's true. In this case, I belive the guy was just standing there trolling for somebody to bitch at. You all know the type.
And you are correct that being swept is rude.
I'm not denouncing the basic rules of gun saftey, like the OP stated in this hypothetical situation " likely to be loaded ,but somebody with a gun flat in the palm in a gun shop thats just been double check by staff and customer, is of little threat more than one in the case.
Again if your THAT concerned about safety you might as well be like that guy who puts a bullet proof on everytime he cleans his guns or handles them?
On a side note I've always wondered about it at ranges where they have all these huge signs that read "uncased guns must be unloaded and breech locked open" and then at target change you must do the same and clear your bench area, unless your gun is cased its fine to sit there loaded? Saftey off..still nobody near it but...what can you do?
When you see somebody on a cell phone driving do you pull up along side them, honk your horn and shout?
Just kinda interesting when you start comparing whats perceived safe.

At a gun shot its pretty much par for the course and its hard to avoid. At the range, I will tell them to be more careful. If they don't get with it, I'll just ask them how much longer they plan on shooting so I can just come back when they are done. They usually get annoyed and leave anyhow. In general people are just being careless and don't realize they are doing something unsafe. People don't like to be corrected but they like confrontation even less so they will normally just change what they are doing. If they leave offended that's fine with me because next time they will probably be more aware of what they are doing.

When you see somebody on a cell phone driving do you pull up along side them, honk your horn and shout?
Just kinda interesting when you start comparing whats perceived safe.

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This.
So much chest-thumping and bravado is posted on these boards about responding to sweeping.

I usually go out of my way to avoid "muzzle sweeping" people, but if anyone were ever to raise their voice at me for something innocuous, I would consider that unacceptable social behavior.

Furthermore, I've read something like the following on this board on more than one occasion,

1st time dey do it I get mad
If dey do it again I wll draw on dem!!!

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Anyone that responded with intentionally dangerous behavior to unintentionally offensive behavior deserves jail time.


There are blatant, obviously unacceptable forms of sweeping that need correction, but most of the time, it's just something that is remedied by just... moving out of the way.

My response has varied, from ignoring it, to being very impolite. Within Texas, I have the option to arrest, but I consider education the better option.

But what about other cases, those where guns are generally considered to be loaded, such as a range…?

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If someone sweeps another at a controlled range (with a RO) they should be immediately ejected from the premises. There is no excuse for that. At an uncontrolled range I would have a sharp word with the individual and if I suspected my admonitions were falling on deaf ears, or if they did it again, I would pack and leave immediately.

Rexster said:

Within Texas, I have the option to arrest, but I consider education the better option.

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Huh? For being swept?

Duck

I once had a dealer at a gun show point a laser aiming device at me from about 75 feet away. It was attached to a toy pistol but at 75 feet all I could see was a man aiming a pistol at me. I noticed the red dot on my chest and scrambled for cover before I realized this this idiot was standing behind a table and laughing. I thought about taking it away from him and smashing it but instead I went up front and told the show director why I was leaving.

I try to be reasonable. I am correcting a lot of soldiers who learned bad habits from someone else. Usually they had bad examples in their leadership. ("It's ok, it's not really loaded.) I have to make a choice. I can be a dorsche, and let them have it every time, Or I can remind them reasonably. (Especially when the really AREN'T loaded, like in hallways near the arms room, places like that.) I don't punish them for making mistakes. I punish them for not LEARNING from their mistakes.

I have to earn their respect, and I don't do that by humiliating them every time they make a mistake.

It's happened to me more than a couple of times in my lifetime. In all instances, I moved off-line (jumped, more like) and then went up and quietly and politely asked the person to please not do that again. In all but one instance, the reaction on the other side was an appropriate level of shame and contrition.

In one instance, the fellow decided to argue with me about how he wasn't being dangerous and that I was being silly. I then quietly offered to point my pistol at him ('might be unloaded or loaded - who knows?') and let him decide if he felt threatened or not. He 'got it', begrudgingly, but had he pressed the issue then I likely would have just left the area rather than exchange muzzle views.

I have to admit that twice, while hunting, I've inadvertently swept a party member. I usually hunt solo, and I failed to change my behaviors to account for the presence of a hunting party. In all cases the gun's safety was on, but still - I screwed up. In one case, while deer hunting, I dunno if the other hunters even noticed (but I did). In the other case, while dove hunting, the hunter reacted just as I have. I, in turn, reacted with an appropriate level of shame and contrition. I had been an idiot, and I knew it.

Obviously different situations call for different responses, none of them rude as all that’s likely to do is escalate the situation.

At a range I’d simply sound off with “Please keep your weapon pointed up and down range at all times.” If it happened again I’d report it to the RSO.

I can’t imagine a situation not on a range where I’d wouldn’t take it as a direct threat if someone pointed a known loaded weapon at me.

I guess hunting would be such a situation but as I don't hunt with people I don't know I'd simply ask the person not to sweep me.

I notice that when ever these sorts of threads come up there's usually a good number of people willing to aggressively confront the offender with the intent of causing them public embarrassment or shame.

I always wonder if those people are insane.

You are after all pushing a hostile confrontation with a person with a loaded gun...

Get yourself out of the line of fire, tell the RSO or instructor and let them deal with the problem.

Within Texas, I have the option to arrest...

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I hope your shift supervisor and LT really love you, you sleep with the DA and the judge is your brother in law.

Otherwise, brother, you would be in for a s*&$ storm if you tried that.

My response has varied, from ignoring it, to being very impolite. Within Texas, I have the option to arrest, but I consider education the better option.

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Are you LE? If not, either you'd most likely get charged with a felony yourself for kidnapping or there is another Texas I don't know about. Texas has no special citizen's arrest laws and unless you know of a case in which somebody was convicted of a felony or disturbing the peace for sweeping at a gun range i suggest you don't.

beatledog7 said:

Follow-up question: Has there ever been a time when your response was to reflexive self-preservation mode? That is, duck for cover and/or prepare to return fire?

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Funny you mention that-- I'd posted the very same question in another thread.

My encounters were both in the shop and I was swept. Not aimed at deliberately. So moving away from the angle of "attack" was my response. I didn't have to scramble for cover.

There have been numerous cases where the mishandling of firearms has caused injury or death. Even if the shooting was unintended the consequences are irreversible.

I used to just yell out, “Hey, don’t point your gun at me!”, but now I only stay at our club range (rarely used M-Th) as long as I’m in close proximity to other shooters where I can closely watch them and be in physical control of them if need be.

If that is not possible I just leave the range to preclude being swept. Range practice is not worth being killed for whether it was intentional or not.