Muzzle Swept with loaded gun at LGS

[GLOOB]

The number of guys freaking out was amazing. OMG you're handling a gun unsafely, you just swept me or when the range was cold no gun handling, yada yada yada. Hey maroons - it ain't a gun anymore - no cylinder!

Well, here's the rub. The guys who said such probably saw the barrel pointing at them, first. Then they may or may not have seen the cylinder was removed, later. And they may or may not have any experience with a revolver. It still looks bad, at first glance.

Same potential issue with the unconcealed, open-bottom shoulder rig.

BTW, your story reminds me of something. I got my first revolver a few months back. A few weeks ago I suspected a squib. Even though I unloaded the cylinder and left it hanging open, I still had to stop and think about it, logically, for a good 10-20 seconds before deciding it was safe to look down the bore! And even then, I kept the gun pointing downrange and moved myself in front of it. And yes, there was a squib stuck right at the muzzle end. Not everyone is as familiar with revolvers!

 

[mr.trooper]

loosen up.

 

[GLOOB]

You're out hunting, and you touch your rifle's muzzle to the mud. It might be obstructed. The gun is in perfect working condition. You built it yourself. The safety is on, and there's no one else around. Do you take a quick voluntary peek down the muzzle, knowing the gun is loaded? You know it's not going to just go off. But you still unload it, first, I bet.

Many people around you will have a similar aversion to getting an involuntary peek down the bore of your holstered gun, so how can you blame them? Sure, who cares, that's their problem. Unless they're your potential customers?

 

[jbrown50]

"Way too sensitive" is an understatement.

Phobia/Paranoia of an inanimate object is more accurate.

Many of us have become so fearful of guns that when we see them, or if that evil looking muzzle is pointed our way, we subconciously imagine them indiscriminately firing and killing us all by themselves.

This is why we can't tackle the problems in our society that breed urban (and rural) youth crime, the mentally ill and psychopaths. We're to busy placating to our little fears and allowing politicians to pass another feel good, easy and cheap to implement, gun law that doesn't even remotely address the root causes of violent crime.

Every time I walk into a gun shop or walk in front of a policeman sitting at a table in a restuarant the muzzle of a gun is pointing at me. What difference does it make whether I can see it or not?

sorry for the soap box rant.

 

[GLOOB]

This is why we can't tackle the problems in our society that breed urban (and rural) youth crime,

This might require some clarification.

Every time I walk into a gun shop or walk in front of a policeman sitting at a table in a restarant the muzzle of a gun is pointing at me.

The policeman thing is 100% wrong. I'd guess less than 1% of uniformed police officers are even allowed to use a shoulder or a drop-leg holster. Whether they're standing or sitting, the guns they carry are pointing at the ground. Unless they're sitting on you or doing cartwheels, you are not getting swept.

What difference does it make whether I can see it or not?

It's not illegal to walk around in public without a shirt and shoes. I mean, who cares if you can see some dudes' hairy manboobs and potbelly or not? But that doesn't make it a good idea to allow your employees to show up to work like that. Asking your employees to wear a shirt doesn't automatically mean you think bare-chestedness should be illegal, or that you are making society's larger problems go unsolved!

So answer my question. Do you unload a gun before you look down the end of the barrel? If so, then why do you think it's ok to allow your loaded gun to point at other people in the face?

 

[doc2rn]

Seriously the OP needs to understand inannimate objects cant hurt you! Way too sensitive IMO.

 

[Sam1911]

Do you unload a gun before you look down the end of the barrel? If so, then why do you think it's ok to allow your loaded gun to point at other people in the face?

This is getting dumb. Picking up your gun and peering down the barrel is handling/manipulating that gun. If you set the gun down on the bench and did not touch it, I suppose you could squat down and peer into the barrel (again NO HANDS) but that would be utterly pointless as you won't see much with the breech closed.

Seeing as there is no plausible reason to do such a thing, the point is moot.

There ARE realistic reasons to carry a gun in a holster, even a shoulder holster. There is no credible threat from a holstered gun.

 

[Claude Clay]

---the fact that there is no hand on the gun arrives after i see the muzzle pointed at me

a muzzle whose direction catches my eye; as in , at me: causes an adrenalin dump. rational has not to do with reflexive impulses.

by the time my higher level thought 'tells' me that --'its holstered'.....
well its too late to recall the adrenalin or my bp from the 140's.

if someone is going to shoulder carry parallel ( i have and still sometime do), covering it up is a social nicety. err....necessity

 

[reflex439]

I agree that a holstered firearm is inherently safe. it's not going to fire on its own, but needs human interaction in order to be made unsafe. If the holstered gun was lying on a table all by itself, its safe IMO.

However, a holstered firearm under the direct control of the person carrying the firearm is no longer 'as safe'. The level of safety is no longer directly attributed to an inherent object, but now directly related to the human carrying it.

I would be nervous standing behind someone with a shoulder holster that is not known to me. For all I know, he could be ready to draw for any number of reasons. Or his holster was modified in such a way it's an accident waiting to happen when he readjusts it for comfort. He could have modified it such that is truly is a hair trigger and he is using a soft leather holster. He could have every intention of drawing to rob the grocer at the end of the line in front of us. Or the safest individual known to this planet.

Once you bring in the human element, things can happen. Its no longer a safe loaded holstered pistol sitting on a desk. Its a loaded firearm under the direct control of a human with unverified safety procedures, and should be suspect until proven otherwise.

I never trust when someone hands me a gun and tells me its unloaded. It just makes sense to check for yourself. I never trust the safety procedures of another person at the range until I've had time to watch and verity his actions. I never trust a stranger with a gun, especially when its pointed at me, whether holstered or not.

if someone is going to shoulder carry parallel ( i have and still sometime do), covering it up is a social nicety. err....necessity

Well said. To me its just proper gun etiquette not to point a muzzle at anyone without their permission. Perhaps I was just raised wrong

 

[jcwit]

I've followed this thread for the last 6 days of its life and have even made a couple of replies.

But honistly I wonder how some here ever get behind the wheel or walk down the street. Must be absolute Hexx living is a total state of fear 24/7.

 

[Nushif]

For all I know, he could be ready to draw for any number of reasons. Or his holster was modified in such a way it's an accident waiting to happen when he readjusts it for comfort. He could have modified it such that is truly is a hair trigger and he is using a soft leather holster. He could have every intention of drawing to rob the grocer at the end of the line in front of us.

For all I know any gunowner who sees reason to carry could be ready to draw for any number of reasons! Or his gun is modified it such that is is truly a 3.5 pound single action trigger and he may be using a soft leather holster! He could have every intention of drawing to kill someone at the gas station.

Best to just outlaw those guns! They're just too unsafe. Once you introduce the human element there's just no certainty anymore. But hey ... maybe I was just raised wrong.

... see what I did there?

 

[Werewolf]

...a muzzle whose direction catches my eye; as in , at me: causes an adrenalin dump. rational has not to do with reflexive impulses.

In this case rational has everything to do with it. the reflex you refer to is learned. No one is born afraid of a metal tube pointing at them.

That said:

Either you have never experienced a real adrenaline dump or you are just way too nervous to be around firearms and that includes actually carrying one.

If the sight of the muzzle of a a holstered gun pointed at you causes an adrenaline dump how on earth are you gonna react if a firearm is ever pointed at you with actual intent to cause harm?

Better think about that, seriously. Don't even think about joining the Army or Marines. You'd be more of a danger to your fellows than the enemy.

Or - maybe you were just exagerating for the sake of trying to make a point.

 

[230therapy]

Yeah, I'm more concerned about being downrange changing targets when some yahoo decides to start firing.

It was a taste of what the guys in Iraq and Afganistan feel like on a daily basis.

 

[Nushif]

Either you have never experienced a real adrenaline dump or you are just way too nervous to be around firearms and that includes actually carrying one.

I'll have to agree with Were here. I personally get mild adrenaline dumps from people starting to talk behind me when I didn't know they were there rather than when someone flags me at the LGS.
Actually I don't get them when someone flags me casually.

Adrenaline dumps are a learned response. And if you truly do get them when you're casually flagged (which again, I would not consider a holstered weapon capable of such) I would advise you to reduce the cognitive power you spend on shooting.
Don't "imagine" what it's capable of, don't dwell on it, hells, don't go shooting for a month or three! Or as we use it around here... don't psyche yourself out.

 

[Claude Clay]

wow----thank you for some observations based on phrases i need 2 pages to explain.........but i need to stop chuckling first.....

please substitute ' causes an instantaneous' highting of my level of awareness' for adrenalin dump. truth be known i am one of those who is pretty much (99+%) scare/adrenalin proof. many past events (car 'events' and attempted armed actions against me make up the majority) have shown me that i don't get 'riled'. not before, during or after the event.

to train such that situational awareness is second nature within ones self is not to be living in fear 24/7. seldom ( cant say never) are events around me occuring in a random or unexpected mannor. being aware is like Norton--it runs unnoticed in the background till needed. not every time it pops up is it for a life & death reason, but it got your attention.

...but when I entered the store I would have noticed how the help were open carrying so i likely would not be stressed later if he bent over and mooned, err, swept me. though if it is a store i go to often i may, in a quiet moment, talk with him about wearing a vest. not as to safety but as a courtesy.

not born afraid of a metal tube , is right. one learns that a knife is sharp and a metal tube in the shape of a gun can cause bad things to happen if your in its line of sight. live & learn or die stupid. being observant is not interchangeable with being paranoid. how one reacts to whats going on about them determains that.

enough for now, g'day.

 

[reflex439]

For all I know any gunowner who sees reason to carry could be ready to draw for any number of reasons! Or his gun is modified it such that is is truly a 3.5 pound single action trigger and he may be using a soft leather holster! He could have every intention of drawing to kill someone at the gas station.

Best to just outlaw those guns! They're just too unsafe. Once you introduce the human element there's just no certainty anymore. But hey ... maybe I was just raised wrong.

... see what I did there?

Outlaw? Where did that come from?

I did see what you did, I just don't understand it You took a rational statement and took it to the very extreme, and then used that extreme as a basis to validate your viewpoint.

As others have said in this forum, and elsewhere, there are some real idiots in the world. They drive cars, visit gun ranges, attend gun show, use power tools, etc. There is no way I could know how safe the muzzle is that is pointing at me, unless I know the human that controls it. Since I don't, I don't trust it. Just because I don't trust it, doesn't mean I fear it, nor feel it should be outlawed.

I don't trust the driver on the other side of the double yellow line on the highway to the sober, paying attention, not texting, or even to be hell bent on suicide in a head on. So I drive defensively.

In the case presented with the shoulder holster, I would increase my safety by simply stepping aside out of the muzzles direction. Problem solved. Seems simple, easy, and rational to me.

And you got outlaw guns from that? Really?

 

[Sam1911]

In the case presented with the shoulder holster, I would increase my safety by simply stepping aside out of the muzzles direction. Problem solved. Seems simple, easy, and rational to me.

If you feel concerned, this seems like a reasonable response. Seeing as none of us wants to outlaw anything, and there doesn't seem to be any other effective way to change anyone else's behavior in this, let's call this 'asked and answered.'