If you're swept by a loaded gun (or one that is likely to be)

[HOWARD J]

Many times while in deer camp some tired idiot would come into camp with his rifle swinging back & forth across my gut---i finally got so tired of it I grabbed a guys rifle & threw it into the brush ---I will not say what I said--
---some people need a wake-up call

 

[poolingmyignorance]

When I worked in Venezulea the guards were the worst about it. They stand there with a loaded ak talking amongst each other holding it by pistol grip, offten fingering the trigger.. and gesturing with it as the spoke to each other. The worst one of all was this kid, he looked like he might have been 15 tops..he'd come running out of the rec room to eat swinging it left and right, sweeping everybody, and stand there in line with it tossed over his shoulder pointed at everybody in line behind him..Worst thing was you can't say **** to them, they don't care, and my spanish sucks anyhow. I just made sure to go eat after they were all done.

 

[HorseSoldier]

A) I'm conditioned enough to be highly sensitive about flagging and muzzle orientation that when it happens (either to me or seeing others flagged), my skin starts crawling and I involuntarily start going into mental rehearsals for how I'm going to close with the person and disarm them.

B) How tactful I am about the issue depends on the context. For new shooters and such, I try to be educational rather than punitive, but (especially in a .mil context) I can go from a 0/10 to an 11/10 on the intensity scale real fast and not be really nice or tactful about it. Generally being an easy going guy, a discrete or public discussion of the error tends to leave an impression and I've never had to correct the problem twice.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Sweeping someone is certainly rude, however, if someone has a loaded gun pointed at you or someone else, you want them to remain calm above all else. Making them feel embarrased may or may not help them remember not to repeat it; but you don't want them to become so flustered that their already bad habits become worse - and speaking for myself only, I also don't want to create a negative experience for someone who is still learning the sport. The more people who enjoy shooting, the cheaper the prices will be and the more places I will have to shoot.

A calm, firm explanation of the four rules is usually enough to correct most problems.

 

[Averageman]

Someone sweeping you with their muzzle is just a lack of self control and poor weapons control and the reality of what happens when the ND causes a wound.
I have seen about every bad example I care to. I no longer have the patience to deal with people who are so careless.
I have had an untrained Guardsmen stand up on the firing line from the prone in the Dark, turn and litterally shove the muzzle in to my Kevlar despite my Warnings and Instructions.
I was more patient and much older when that happened.
As a Young Sgt. I grabbed a muzzle that passed my face twice and punched the C.O.'s driver right in the snot box on a live fire range.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

i finally got so tired of it I grabbed a guys rifle & threw it into the brush ---

As a Young Sgt. I grabbed a muzzle that passed my face twice and punched the C.O.'s driver right in the snot box on a live fire range.

First let me say to Averageman, had I been your commanding officer you would have gone from young Sergeant to young Private as quickly as I could arrange it.

I realize that this may be somewhat off topic to the thread but I have to ask what, exactly, makes this behavior OK? Suppose the young soldier that muzzled Averageman ( you know the one that was holding a fully loaded real Assault Rifle) had as little self control as Averageman displayed? Would he have been wrong to shoot the guy that had just committed battery on him?

"Your Honor it hsppened so fast. I don't even know why Sgt. Dumbass attacked me. I was scared I thought he was going to keep beating me and I just reacted exactly the way the Army trained me to react"

Suppose the guy that had his how many hundred dollar hunting rifle thrown into the bush had decided it was worth an ass kicking?

At the best of times I find such behavior incredibly offensive but when you introduce it into a situation that involves loaded firearms? And then you say the other guy is stupid?

 

[HOWARD J]

Hey Monkey,
I still had a 357 on one hip & a k-bar on the other---be very caeful who you call stupid

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Hey Monkey,
I still had a 357 on one hip & a k-bar on the other---be very caeful who you call stupid

Again I ask why was that behavior acceptable? What taught you that it was OK to treat other people like that? Would that behavior have still been acceptable if he had done it to you? Would it have been OK for you to use deadly force to defend yourself in a situation that you precipitated?

 

[HOWARD J]

God,

Where do these people come from.............

good bye

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you are a prohibited person (or a corpse) that hasn't happened yet.

Good day

 

[Averageman]

First let me say to Averageman, had I been your commanding officer you would have gone from young Sergeant to young Private as quickly as I could arrange it.
After being warned once about the issue. then returning with a insubordinate and insulting remark, I felt it was time for him to understand the gravity of his error the second time.
It wasn't long after another incident where a ND actually nearly cost someone in the Company his life.

I realize that this may be somewhat off topic to the thread but I have to ask what, exactly, makes this behavior OK? Suppose the young soldier that muzzled Averageman ( you know the one that was holding a fully loaded real Assault Rifle) had as little self control as Averageman displayed? Would he have been wrong to shoot the guy that had just committed battery on him?
He was actually thrown off the range after the second incident. Yes I was verbally repremanded by my 1SG who also watched me handle the first infraction and stood back to let me handle it.
BTW this young Soldier's true nature was borne out later when was charged with Impersonating and Officer, Sodomy, AWOL and a few other charges.
So sometimes as a Commanding Officer you learn that the business of NCO's is left to NCO's.
"Your Honor it hsppened so fast. I don't even know why Sgt. Dumbass attacked me. I was scared I thought he was going to keep beating me and I just reacted exactly the way the Army trained me to react"
I'm sure that Young fellow would have tried that very thing, thats why I kept his rifle and turned it over to the
1SG. It's my range, you want to not obey the rules thats one thing, you want to endanger other Soldiers thats completly different.

Suppose the guy that had his how many hundred dollar hunting rifle thrown into the bush had decided it was worth an ass kicking?

At the best of times I find such behavior incredibly offensive but when you introduce it into a situation that involves loaded firearms? And then you say the other guy is stupid?
The Military is not a place, or wasn't then; for those easily offended. I learned that getting my physical at the MEPS Station.

 

[Kleanbore]

Striking someone? Grabbing someone's firearm? Criminal acts, and actions that could lead to%