Is there a commonly used rifle round less powerful than the AR15?

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If you take that line mach4 you open yourself to the anti counter that if they're not powerful enough for hunting what purpose do they serve.
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The ideal military round injures and doesn't kill. It wounds 1 man, takes 2 to carry him back and a medic to treat him. That's a total of 4 people. That is the ideal assault weapon round.

Say that to an anti talking about Rhino killing bullets and a light in his head flips on. If you want to be thick headed and not believe me fine, but I've used this argument on multiple people and it works.

People believe the AR15 is a nuclear weapon and it's not. It's that rubbish from NPR that I'm trying to eliminate. I've been effective in the past and I hope to be more effective in the future. So either contribute to the thread or stop the defeatist attitude and go away.
 
5.45x39 is weaker.

IIRC the standard load is a 53 grain bullet at a little over 2900 FPS. Considering the M4 does that same MV with a 62 grain bullet out of a shorter barrel then I would say the 5.45 is in fact less powerful.
 
wacki said:
The ideal military round injures and doesn't kill. It wounds 1 man, takes 2 to carry him back and a medic to treat him. That's a total of 4 people. That is the ideal assault weapon round.
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You are not in a position to disprove anyone repeating this tired tired long long debunked myth

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The ideal military round injures and doesn't kill. It wounds 1 man, takes 2 to carry him back and a medic to treat him. That's a total of 4 people. That is the ideal assault weapon round.
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This is another argument I wouldn't really recommend for two reasons.

1. In the aftermath of a shooting where the murderer shot each victim multiple times--up into the double digits of rounds per victim, it's not particularly relevant that a single shot may actually be less likely to be lethal than other common rifle rounds.

2. The idea that the military intentionally chooses rounds so that they wound but don't kill is actually a common topic for heated debate rather than an accepted fact. Stating it as fact will not help the credibility of the person making the statement if the person listening does any research at all--even something as simple as a basic internet search.
It's that rubbish from NPR that I'm trying to eliminate.
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A very worthy goal. However, it is CRITICAL that we not merely replace rubbish with rubbish.
 
No matter how you slice it they will never listen to reason and will surely demand confiscation of the means of self-defense.
The lowest common denominator wins by breeding at a greater rate than those who plan ahead and care about providing for their families.
Once they have eaten the crops and failed to plant they will starve as they are now doing in 3rd world countries all over the world.
 
I try to assess the thought pattern. When I have been asked recently about it, it was obvious the person thought it was some uber-powerful caliber that is too powerful for any reasonable hunter to use.

I always say that any firearm of any caliber is dangerious and can easily be deadly.

I simply point out that in many states, the .223Rem/5.56 NATO is too weak to be used to ethically hunt larger prey in many states. They generally are only suitable for varmits, dogs/coyotes etc.
 
You are correct that the US military does not 'intentionally choose' rounds which have lower lethality. They are mandated by the international treaties we have agreed to.
 
I simply point out that in many states, the .223Rem/5.56 NATO is too weak to be used to ethically hunt larger prey in many states. They generally are only suitable for varmits, dogs/coyotes etc.
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That's a reasonable argument, and one that can be readily supported with facts.
They are mandated by the international treaties we have agreed to.
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What treaties that the U.S. has agreed to address the lethality of rifle ammunition with respect to the power of the round?
 
What treaties that the U.S. has agreed to address the lethality of rifle ammunition with respect to the power of the round?
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Does he mean Hague Convention?

That's FMJ though. It's not power but it forces the bullets to be less lethal.
 
If you take that line mach4 you open yourself to the anti counter that if they're not powerful enough for hunting what purpose do they serve.
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You remind them that A) the 2nd amendment is not about hunting, B) just because it's on the small side for big game doesn't mean it's not useful for varmints, predators and other small animals and C) it's very popular & useful for competitive shooting where trajectory matters but power does not.

All in all I think its a reasoning dead end with the average anti
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Think that if you like, but I've personally used the argument with great success.
 
This reminds me of why the Chicago Cubs are not world series champs, it's lke beating a dead horse. Pick on a different round like the 9 mm and tell me why you don't hunt with that (LOL).

Jim
 
The 5.56 is illegal for hunting here as it is not soft point. But .223 soft points are legal for deer and have proven effective when used properly. In some states they are not legal.
In response to your question the .223/5.56 is among the least powerful common hunting rifle rounds.
 
The NRA considers it a "High Power Rifle" and has for decades.
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The term "High Power" in military rifle marksmanship competition, I believe, is really only to differentiate it from .22 rimfire marksmanship competition. The terminology may be the same as that used by the anti-gun media, but the meaning is quite different.

The 5.56 round was widely criticized in it's early days for being way too small and horribly underpowered. It's a good varmint round for hunting, but a very poor deer round except in the hands of an expert.
 
9mm in a Submachine gun like an MP-5 or Uzi. But then again they are shooting a lot of lead. I think knockdown power is a moot point when you have a dozen 124 grain 9mm FMJs hitting you at 1200+ FPS in the span of about a second.
 
I'm not completely certain, but I believe .223 cannot be used for deer in Arizona. I have a Model 92 lever-action rifle, 20" barrel, chambered in 38/357. I've never heard that these calibers were intended to do anything other than kill people, and the Rossi, when loaded with 357 magnums, is legal for deer here. I'm wondering what its muzzle velocity and foot pounds of energy are.
 
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Much like a dozen 62gn bullets hitting you at just shy of 3k FPS would put a serious damper on your day.
 
The law varies from state to state on which rounds are legal for deer hunting. In some states .223 is allowed, but in others it's seen as underpowered from deer.

And I've never tried to make any claims to rounds status as high power or not, I have had to correct a few of the informed who believed assualt rifles were so powerful they could blow a deer to pieces.
 
A few commonly used rifle rounds that are less powerful than .223/5.56
(I had to change the question since the AR can chamber many rounds more powerful than the .223/5.56 such as 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .450 Bushmaster etc.)

Any currently produced rimfire.
.17 Remington.
5.45x39.5
.22 Hornet
.30 US Carbine
44-40 WCF

I remember a few years back when the demon was the AK-47, I can't recall the particular talking head that said it, but the general gist was that the AK had no legitimate hunting use since it was so powerful that it would "blow a deer apart".
 
I have had to correct a few of the informed who believed assualt rifles were so powerful they could blow a deer to pieces.
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This, I believe, is the whole point of this thread. Not whether they are technically "high power" or effective for deer or not, but to simply inform ignorant folks of the facts.

An AR really is just a rifle that shoots an "intermediate" cartridge (something between a .45 pistol and a full-power rifle like a 30-06). It's not a magic death-ray that vaporizes everything in it's sights. It's just a rifle, and compared to most deer rifle not even a very powerful one.
 
Auto426 said:
And I've never tried to make any claims to rounds status as high power or not, I have had to correct a few of the informed who believed assualt rifles were so powerful they could blow a deer to pieces.
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So have I. For some reason people seem to think that the SKS is too powerful to hunt with because it blows the deer away while guns that fire muuuch more powerful rounds are suitable. I actually had this argument at work about a week ago.

People are ignorant, they aren't stupid, they just take their information from the media outlets that tell them that the SKS and AK are so powerful that there won't be any meat left to claim after shooting...but the 12 guage is okay because it is low cap. :rolleyes:
 
well let me see. isreali spec ops teams use 22 magnum handguns:D
not 5.56 is about as light powered as you can get. 223 is in fact, a light carbine round, not a high powered rifle. the term high powered is usually used to describe AR15s to make them sound more terrifying and scary to people that know nothing about guns.
 
.223 is the least powerful of common centerfire rifle rounds. There are rounds less powerful, but they're not common.
 
.30 Carbine isn't common?
They carry it in four flavors at my local Wally World (at least they did before the latest pervert played out his sick, psychosexual fantasy).
 
Swampman said:
.30 Carbine isn't common?
They carry it in four flavors at my local Wally World (at least they did before the latest pervert played out his sick, psychosexual fantasy).
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You know I always considered 30carbine to be a handgun round that nobody bothered to make a handgun for till fairy recently.




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