Mental illness and owning firearms

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

whm1974

member
Joined
Feb 10, 2004
Messages
3,051
Hello guys I haven't been on this forum for years since I sold the guns I had about five years ago.

I filed for disabilty due to depression three years ago and I'm waiting for my benefits.

Awhile back my roommate told me that when once I get my benefits I can no longer own a firearm. Any truth to this?
 
Unless theres a different local law or they pass a new federal law the ATF has this to say on it
A person is
“adjudicated as a mental defective”
if a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority has made
a determination that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, mental illness, incompetency, condition,
or disease:
Is a danger to himself or to others;
Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs;
Is found insane by a court in a criminal case;
or
Is found incompetent to stand trial, or not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility, pursuant to articles
50a and 72b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. §§ 850a, 876b.
Click to expand...
(source: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/i/atf-i-3310-4.pdf )
That might fall under lacks mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs but if you're living alone and still feeding yourself it seems like that would be a stretch you really would need to talk to an attorney to have a better idea though. The last person I knew that went on disability had to have an attorney in the first place to get disability benefits, do you have one assisting you now? you might need to be asking him rather than asking us here.
 
That might fall under lacks mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs but if you're living alone and still feeding yourself it seems like that would be a stretch you really would need to talk to an attorney to have a better idea though.
Click to expand...

I'll ask him next time I see him. However I live in subdise housing, so I may not be allow to have firearms in my apartment.
 
"Ajudicated" is the operative word. If you haven't been officially declared by a court to be one of the things listed above, then you may answer "NO" on that section of the 4473.
 
whm1974 said:
Hello guys I haven't been on this forum for years since I sold the guns I had about five years ago.

I filed for disabilty due to depression three years ago and I'm waiting for my benefits.

Awhile back my roommate told me that when once I get my benefits I can no longer own a firearm. Any truth to this?
Click to expand...
You really need to contact an attorney concerning this. If you already have an attorney as a result of applying for SSI, he should be able to tell you, or refer you to an attorney who has expertise in this area.
 
In your case, it probably depends on whether you're a danger to yourself or others. That would largely be determined by what you've said on the matter. Obviously you have the mental capacity to be on this forum and take care of your own affairs.

You have to keep in the mind, that in the future, any mental conditions could bar someone from owning firearms, no matter how slight. The gun grabbers did it with all non-violent felons (with the 1960 NRA's help) - they'll have no qualms about doing it to other classes of people as well.

And then,
"Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy, and, we shall have..........peace." - Emperor Palpatine.
 
But if Social Security sends the monthly check to (in care of, etc.) a third party Representative Payee, the assumption is often made that the person with a disability is incompetent and can't take care of their daily business.

"Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs;"

Otoh, some folks are physically unable to get to the bank, write checks, etc. and need a Representative Payee to do the leg work for them. They should still be able to own firearms.

John
 
A person is
“adjudicated as a mental defective”
if a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority has made
a determination that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, mental illness, incompetency, condition,
or disease:
Is a danger to himself or to others;
Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs;
Is found insane by a court in a criminal case;
or
Is found incompetent to stand trial, or not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility, pursuant to articles
50a and 72b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. §§ 850a, 876b.


Correct answer
 
Just because I know too much about the process... :)

"panel of medical doctors that reviews the case"

There is no panel of doctors. The 'disability determination services' offices in each state are contracted by Social Security to make the medical determinations. The college grads they hire are state employees, making state wages, but working under SSA directions and regulations. Sure, they have a consulting M.D. or two, but there's no panel of doctors.

Fwiw, if you ever take a case to the hearing level, take a lawyer with you because the hearing officer is a lawyer under contract, not a doctor.
 
Have you been 'adjudicated' mentally ill or defective? are you a danger to yourself or another person? Be honest with yourself. Please.
If you have suicidal or homicidal thoughts, please do yourself a favor, set aside your wish to own firearms.

If, however, your mind is well, check with your doctor and your attorney first, before proceeding.

And, if you are well, welcome back.
 
But if Social Security sends the monthly check to (in care of, etc.) a third party Representative Payee, the assumption is often made that the person with a disability is incompetent and can't take care of their daily business.

"Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs;"
Click to expand...

I'll keep that in mind about having a payee

Have you been 'adjudicated' mentally ill or defective? are you a danger to yourself or another person? Be honest with yourself. Please.
If you have suicidal or homicidal thoughts, please do yourself a favor, set aside your wish to own firearms.
Click to expand...

No and No. I had a IL FOID card. I had sold my guns a few years before it exspired, so I didn't renew it.

It's not so much owning firearms but legally being able to shoot and handle them at gun ranges.
 
splattergun said:
Have you been 'adjudicated' mentally ill or defective? are you a danger to yourself or another person? Be honest with yourself. Please.
If you have suicidal or homicidal thoughts, please do yourself a favor, set aside your wish to own firearms.

If, however, your mind is well, check with your doctor and your attorney first, before proceeding.

And, if you are well, welcome back.
Click to expand...

Excellent advice. Nobody knows what's going through your mind but you. If you feel that you wouldn't be able to trust yourself at your absolute lowest point then keep the firearms out of your home. I watched my dad battle depression and it was very heart breaking. He's doing better now but it's an ongoing battle. Good luck to you and God bless my friend.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android
 
Excellent advice. Nobody knows what's going through your mind but you. If you feel that you wouldn't be able to trust yourself at your absolute lowest point then keep the firearms out of your home. I watched my dad battle depression and it was very heart breaking. He's doing better now but it's an ongoing battle. Good luck to you and God bless my friend.
Click to expand...

Yes it is. Even if I had a FOID and the money I'm not planning on buying any firearms soon, I just want to be able to own them in the future.

Sorry to hear about your dad. Glad he is better now.
 
lawful authority has made
Click to expand...
that's the kicker, it's alot in HOW they write it up
AND folks, remember that one of Obama's fixes is to require all state and federal entities to forward lists to the FBI NICS database. Much of the question is going to be what/who makes that list. It's entirely foreseeable that they just forward entire categories.
 
Thanks for the clarification JohnBT,

As I understand the process all of the entire decision making is done by Administrative Law Judges whom do not have any medical training and are not required to consult any medical professionals when making their decision. Their entire decision is based on which lawyers puts on the best dog and pony show.

Something I am curious about. According to the information I have 90% of the claims are denied by the State Determination Services and of that number only 18% appeal to the Administrative Judge Level. If the claim is denied again it may be appealed to the Appeals Council and then again to Federal Court where 80% of the claims are approved.

This entire process strongly suggest that the actual medical condition of the person has nothing to do with the determinatoin until it reaches Federal Court and is designed to force the person to drop his/her claim due to lack of money to live on while pursing the appeals.

My question is do have have any information on what % of claims are approved at the Administrative Judge Level and by the Appeals Council?
 
Last edited:
As to the op, if you're to mentally ill to work, you're not safe to be trusted with a firearm.
Click to expand...

Well, he's too ill to work, how do you think that reflects on his "state of mind?"
Click to expand...

That's depends. Most of the time I have a total lack of energy to do anything. I also have major hearing loss and poor eyesight.
 
" According to the information I have 90% of the claims are denied by the State Determination Services and of that number only 18% appeal to the Administrative Judge Level."

Those numbers aren't accurate. Bear in mind that the biggest reason for being denied (other than not being sick enough to meet the Listings) seems to be either bad info or a complete lack of medical info. I've advised folks for over 30 years to get their own medical record copies. Think about it, if you let SSA send releases of information, you are putting your case in the hands of a minimum wage copy clerk at the doctor's office. SSA requires specific info with hard data, lab results, etc. A note from a doctor that you're "disabled" won't do at all.

www.ssdfacts.com and click on a state for the stats.

For Virginia the initial approval rate was 35.6%.
The Reconsideration/first appeal rate was 17.2%.
(The CDR number listed is for folks with conditions that might improve, so they're re-evaluated every few years. 79.2% kept getting benefits.)

The approval number for Hearings in Virginia was 52.1%. Of course, it will take at least a year to even get scheduled after you lose all of the earlier appeals - they're backed up.

The Hearing is the first time an Administrative Law Judge (contract lawyer) will be involved.

The Initial determination is made by a Determiner at the state level.
The first appeal is called the Reconsideration and is made by a more experienced Determiner at the state level.
And it goes on from there.
 
As to the op, if you're to mentally ill to work, you're not safe to be trusted with a firearm.

Baloney!!!

There are many types of mental illness most of which are manageable with counseling and medication.

There are several reasons someone with mental illness may not be able to work a regular job outside the home. Maybe the individual is unable to handle working a high stress job, aggressive supervisors or be able to perform certain tasks. Or maybe the type of work a mentally ill person can perform isn't available in his/her area or pays too poorly to live on.

Just because a person doesn't have a job outside the home doesn't mean they don't "work". Managing a household such as doing laundry, cleaning the house, fixing meals, taking care of the kids, paying bills is work unless you are a alpha male.

Sadly our society which values having more possesssions and lifestyles better than your neighbor has lost sight of what is really important; such as spending time with your family, teaching family values, respect and tolerance for your neighbors, caring for the elderly such as your parents, helping others who through no fault of their own have difficulty meeting your expectations.

When you paint with a broad brush you usually show your ignorance on the topic.
 
Last edited:
Do you understand that the riskiest point in the recovery process is not when you are feeling lousy, its later on, when you begin to feel better, thats the point where things can become dicey.
Click to expand...

Good point. I'll keep that in mind.

Look at it this way. Is everyone in this nation who uses Prozac now ineligible to own a gun?
Click to expand...

Good question. Some of these meds are taken for sleep disorders among other reasons besides mental illness.
 
Sadly our society which values having more possesssions and lifestyles better than your neighbor has lost sight of what is really important; such as spending time with your family, teaching family values, respect and tolerance for your neighbors, caring for the elderly such as your parents, helping others who through no fault of their own have difficulty meeting your expectations.
Click to expand...

You are correct. If I had kids for example I would welcome this time I have to spend with them, even if I don't have the energy to do much.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

9
  • Locked
Adjudicated mentally defective...
Replies
12
Views
3K
9mmforMe
9
F
  • Locked
For those who want to stop the "mentally ill" from firearms
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Replies
198
Views
8K
Fulcrum of Evil
F
coloradokevin
  • Locked
Mental Defectives and Firearms Ownership?
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
bsctov
B
T
  • Locked
Question about mental health
Replies
7
Views
437
Cliff47
C
Baba Louie
  • Locked
INSANITY DEFENSE: Killer's mental illness recedes
Replies
5
Views
676
para.2
P
Back
Top