Big score at Walmart, but not for me ;(

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Glad to see SOMEONE understands econ 101..........

Seems the only folks whining are those who don't have enough in their own garage

So you've never heard of Ebay? GB? You guys are assuming all kinds of crimes just because you're mad you didn't get the ammo first.

There's usually a low end limit of what is considered a "business". I don't see the IRS rolling people in the parking lot of Costco for bulk buying cookies to resell at fund raisers. Or swooping in on this forum for people selling mags for a profit. A single sale is generally not a "business".

-They paid the sales tax (Wal-mart won't do re-sale exemption), so the sales tax is not an issue.
-As long as they declare income on their tax return, tax paid. Just like anyone who sells anything on Ebay or this forum.
-Even if you are running a business you do not need a tax number if you're a sole proprietorship and don't have employee's. It's a reasonable guess the family of 8 is not a corporation. Or maybe they already filed their LLC. <-sarcasm.

This isn't a fascist state, ... yet. But keep trying and maybe you'll help get us there.

Cheer up. There is a good chance they will get stuck with the ammo and lose their investment. That's capitalism. Risk versus Reward.

Does this sound like I'm whining? My post from another thread.
I agree with agaynor, in this time of shortage buying up everything just because you can afford it is nothing but being selfish.

With that said I seriously doubt I'll need to buy much of anything during the years I have left simply because I purchased in quantity years ago during sales. Back when bricks of .22 rimfire were $5/6 bucks, powder was under $8/10 bucks a lb, and primers were in the $40 dollar range for a sleeve of 5,000. I did not buy to hoard, just bought because it was so cheap.

Same holds true for motor oil and antifreeze, doubt I'll need to do any restocking of that for years & years. Most all purchased on sale for $2.00 a quart or even "FREE" with the sales Menard's runs.

I suppose one could call it hoarding, but then is it hoarding because I'll never need to buy another reloading tool, or rifle, or handgun, or set of wrenches to work on my cars?

All in ones perspective I guess.

My latest hobby involves collecting wrist watches, anything from a Rolex to a Bulova Caravelle, I suppose thats hoarding as well.

-They paid the sales tax (Wal-mart won't do re-sale exemption), so the sales tax is not an issue.

BTW regarding sales tax, everytime an item is sold retail sales tax is to be collected. This is why sales tax is collected on used cars.

That statement I quoted does not hold water in regards to the law.
 
Sorry, no such thing. A business is in business to make as much profit as it can on every sale, because there might come a time when sales are slow - nothing honest or dishonest about it; unless you subscribe to the current admin view of socialism where companies making profits are evil?????

And those who go past the "Honest Profit" close their doors shortly. Huge profits is not what made WalMart the retail giant that they are, or McDonalds the largest fast food resturant.
 
Only the end user pays sales tax. If they resell it, the sales tax has already been paid. Used cars can have more than one user, so one tax paid per user. If they sell "used" ammo, then a second tax needs to be paid. Kind of hard to sell "used" ammo. I think we call that brass.

Keep looking for a violation. Maybe one of them didn't wear their seat belt or buy health insurance. Or maybe some people are just lashing out over the current price spikes because they don't like free market economics. You seem to have a guilty complex regarding "hoarding". I don't know why, or why that applies here.
You can call that "hoarding". I call it preparing or price averaging. Hoarding to me would only include a limited commodity, in desperate need, that cannot be had through normal circumstance. Not just a failure for some to plan ahead. Taking all of Grandma's pie, eating a bit and hiding the rest from the rest of the family is "hoarding". Having gas you stored before a hurricane is not hoarding, just because your neighbor didn't.

I want a mint collectors grade Garand sniper for $400!!! All the old guys bought them up and now I can't get one. Whaaaa!!! Selfish, greedy, hoarders screwing fellow gun owners!!! Where's my whaambulance?
 
I would agree it is more of a "small business" mentality, shared with many other small business owners I worked with.

What makes a small business tick and stay in the family for generations is not the same thing that makes corporate America / Walmart tick.
 
And those who go past the "Honest Profit" close their doors shortly. Huge profits is not what made WalMart the retail giant that they are, or McDonalds the largest fast food resturant.
Exactly. So don't buy from the people selling a box of .22 for $100 on GB. Maybe they will go out of business because of their bad practices. They lose their investment. See, capitalism works.
 
Some folks seem to think if they made $30,000 on ammo from Walmart that its ok?? Ugh. You have gone into business at this point and from a tax standpoint, there is profit.. Some people think that money orders and Paypal don't count. There are many that get away with it. Heck for me it's the sport of finding the treasure. From the looks of it, Walmart ammo never hits the shelf. Lot of corruption, lot of me missing the deal. That's fine. It's kinda fun to go hunting.
 
If you buy something (especially in quantity) for the express purpose of reselling it for a profit, then you are conducting retail business and need a tax ID.

Start turning these jerks in, if they do not have a FFL, it is illegal for them to conduct business of selling ammo. (Period)

Jim

And you may want to inform the WalMart store manager, that supporting straw purcheses of ammo is also illegal as well and will end up with them in jail and loss of that store's FFL. In Illinois you are required to have a FOID to purchase ammo but you also need a FFL to sell it.
 
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I understand the economics of this but its not that people are upset because the stores are charging more. Its people buying for regular prices and selling high. Even if they still have it after the craze they will get their money back. I have a few boxes I have thought about selling, but I found a couple boxes at BPS the other day so I am hoping I can snag another couple. Even got some regular priced .357 since they are going crazy too.
E
 
It is what it is. CCI makes 4 million rounds a day. That's CCI alone. You would think at some point, enough paranoid people would say enough is enough. I guess I was fortunate to buy value packs for no good reason the last few years. ;)
 
Some folks seem to think if they made $30,000 on ammo from Walmart that its ok?? Ugh. You have gone into business at this point and from a tax standpoint, there is profit.. Some people think that money orders and Paypal don't count. There are many that get away with it. Heck for me it's the sport of finding the treasure. From the looks of it, Walmart ammo never hits the shelf. Lot of corruption, lot of me missing the deal. That's fine. It's kinda fun to go hunting.
You seriously believe those people made $30,000 from those few boxes of ammo? Or is it more likely they are going to get home and learn you can't sell ammo on ebay, what ORM shipping is, and that they can't get the $100 per box they heard they could?
If they do sell more than a few boxes they will learn all these things and all the license/tax issues above. 8 people x 3 boxes? Where talking about 24 boxes of .22lr ammo. x $80 (max) - $30 original cost - $20 shipping per box = $90 profit per person, tops. If they can get $80 per box and don't lose their investment.

$90 profit per person? WOW!
Call in the ATF, the IRS and the FBI!
 
Keep looking for a violation. Maybe one of them didn't wear their seat belt or buy health insurance. Or maybe some people are just lashing out over the current price spikes because they don't like free market economics. You seem to have a guilty complex regarding "hoarding". I don't know why, or why that applies here.
You can call that "hoarding". I call it preparing or price averaging. Hoarding to me would only include a limited commodity, in desperate need, that cannot be had through normal circumstance. Not just a failure for some to plan ahead. Taking all of Grandma's pie, eating a bit and hiding the rest from the rest of the family is "hoarding". Having gas you stored before a hurricane is not hoarding, just because your neighbor didn't.

I have a guility complex regarding what I have? Shurly you jest, I have ammo I'll never be able to use up, I have a collection of arms in the hundreds and believe me I have no guility feelings or issues regarding that any of my collection.

Exactly. So don't buy from the people selling a box of .22 for $100 on GB. Maybe they will go out of business because of their bad practices. They lose their investment. See, capitalism works.

I have no need or reason to buy any ammo for years to come, or reloading components either for that matter.

That statement in itself is nothing more than a joke!

Only the end user pays sales tax. If they resell it, the sales tax has already been paid. Used cars can have more than one user, so one tax paid per user. If they sell "used" ammo, then a second tax needs to be paid. Kind of hard to sell "used" ammo. I think we call that brass.

And if you are purchasing a product for resale, whether you pay the sales tax or not, you are not the final user are you. Hence by law you are required to collect and pay to the state sales tax, and have a business license also for that matter. At least that is the case in Indiana.
 
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And you may want to inform the WalMart store manager, that supporting straw purcheses of ammo is also illegal as well and will end up with them in jail and loss of that store's FFL. In Illinois you are required to have a FOID to purchase ammo but you also need a FFL to sell it.

No FFL required to sell ammo here in Indiana, thats a Federal thing anyway. Over here to the east we have no idea what a FOID is and have no need to know.
 
I have a guility complex regarding what I have? Shurly you jest, I have ammo I'll never be able to use up, I have a collection of arms in the hundreds and believe me I have no guility feelings or issues regarding that any of my collection.
I have no need or reason to buy any ammo for years to come, or reloading components either for that matter.
That statement in itself is nothing more than a joke!
And if you are purchasing a product for resale, whether you pay the sales tax or not, you are not the final user are you. Hence by law you are required to collect and pay to the state sales tax, and have a business license also for that matter. At least that is the case in Indiana.
No. Now your just posting gibberish.

I think you should stake out your nearest walmart and call the ATF, FBI and IRS when you see this happen? See if they agree with you. While you're at it there's some little old laddies buying cookies at Costco she's going to resell at a bake sale. Try not to hurt her when you tackle her for a citizens arrest.
 
No. Now your just posting gibberish.

I think you should stake out your nearest walmart and call the ATF, FBI and IRS when you see this happen? See if they agree with you. While you're at it there's some little old laddies buying cookies at Costco she's going to resell at a bake sale. Try not to hurt her when you tackle her for a citizens arrest.

Gibberish? Not hardly. We all know it happenes, just as folks speed and never get caught. But it is the law to collect sales tax when at item is sold whether it is inforced or not. Many laws are not enforced but they are still on the books.

And no I'm not about to stake out my local WalMart and there isn't a Costco anywhere near me.
 
You seriously believe those people made $30,000 from those few boxes of ammo? Or is it more likely they are going to get home and learn you can't sell ammo on ebay, what ORM shipping is, and that they can't get the $100 per box they heard they could?
If they do sell more than a few boxes they will learn all these things and all the license/tax issues above. 8 people x 3 boxes? Where talking about 24 boxes of .22lr ammo. x $80 (max) - $30 original cost - $20 shipping per box = $90 profit per person, tops. If they can get $80 per box and don't lose their investment.

$90 profit per person? WOW!
Call in the ATF, the IRS and the FBI!

Well, let me put it to you this way. There is an individual in south Georgia, who I actually know has a very sweet deal with a major retailer, and he is always selling 5000 round unopened boxes on GB... Now, it does not take a rocket scientist to know how much he is making and to see the frequency of his ads... so yes, I hope like hell he is a business and he is setting aside tax money. It's interesting the views about this topic and how they go from political to legal and back and forth. Simply put, don't be naive to the amount of sketchiness involved in this ferrel cat ammo thing going on right now. A lot of people are just making a quick $100... and a lot of people are taking full advantage of what people are willing to pay. Capitalism at its best, just make sure you pay your share of taxes when it comes due. If you are gonna gouge, do it legally.Thats all.
 
Is that what you saw in with that family of 8 buying a few boxes? Thousands of dollars in unpaid taxes?

Or were you just mad you didn't get the ammo?
 
Gibberish? Not hardly. We all know it happenes, just as folks speed and never get caught. But it is the law to collect sales tax when at item is sold whether it is inforced or not. Many laws are not enforced but they are still on the books.

And no I'm not about to stake out my local WalMart and there isn't a Costco anywhere near me.
No. It is a crime to collect sales tax if you do not have a resales tax number. It is a different offense for a business to buy items "tax deferred" with your resale number and then use them as the end user. It is a different crime for a business to buy tax deferred items and then not collect the sales tax. You're mixing up different issues to justify your position. There is no sales tax issue in buying items at full retail, with sales tax, then selling them. The tax is included.

I understand you're trying to make a federal case out of a some people who clearly don't know what they are doing, but there is a reason you can't get a prosecutor to agree with you. Go ahead call the cops. We have a witness in the OP. Walmart has camera footage and receipts.

Alert the SWAT teams.
 
I went to my LGS Saturday to nose around and see what they had. Low and behold they had a ton of small and large pistol primers. Now I could have bought a whole bunch more than I did and resold them for a good profit but I kept my fellow shooter/reloader in mind and only bought 2000 small and 2000 large and everybody is happy.
 
Does this sound like I'm whining? My post from another thread.
I agree with agaynor, in this time of shortage buying up everything just because you can afford it is nothing but being selfish.

With that said I seriously doubt I'll need to buy much of anything during the years I have left simply because I purchased in quantity years ago during sales. Back when bricks of .22 rimfire were $5/6 bucks, powder was under $8/10 bucks a lb, and primers were in the $40 dollar range for a sleeve of 5,000. I did not buy to hoard, just bought because it was so cheap.

jcwit
Yes, it does sound like you are whining.

So, let me get this straight. When YOU buy extra ammo because it is cheap, it is not hoarding. But when another person buys extra ammo because he finally finds some of the ammo he needs in stock after searching for it for several weeks it is hoarding. :confused:

That is some sound logic you are using my friend. :rolleyes:
 
The Walmart " in stock" is very inaccurate.

Actually the system is very accurate. If it says its in stock, it is. When a truck backs into the dock, and the driver walks inside, the inventory in that truck is now in stock and activated in the system. It takes the unloaders 3 to 4 hours to unload it, and then it can sit in the back room on a pick cart for another 8 hours or more, before an associate actually is given the pick cart to take out to the floor, and stock the ammo case.

But it is in stock nevertheless. Next time, find an associate, tell them that you drove all the way over because the online inventory said it was in stock. They will scan the label in the case for the ammo you want, and if it is in stock, they will make an effort to get it for you. If they cannot, ask for a manager, and repeat yourself, and they will either find it for you, or give you a $10 gift card for your trouble.

Tell em Wriggly sent ya. :D

Oh....and in before the lock. :neener:
 
There's usually a low end limit of what is considered a "business". I don't see the IRS rolling people in the parking lot of Costco for bulk buying cookies to resell at fund raisers. Or swooping in on this forum for people selling mags for a profit. A single sale is generally not a "business".

Fund raisers are not-for-profit. Non profits are tax exempt.

Selling personal items for profit is also not taxable, to a certain point. The IRS defines that point very clearly.

-They paid the sales tax (Wal-mart won't do re-sale exemption), so the sales tax is not an issue.

If they bought specifically to resell, and resell higher than they bought, they have to pay sales tax on the difference:

You buy for $100.00 and pay the total sales tax of 8% for $108.00. You sell for $200.00, you OWE the sales tax on the $92.00 profit, or $7.36.

-As long as they declare income on their tax return, tax paid. Just like anyone who sells anything on Ebay or this forum.

Income tax and sales tax are not the same thing. But yes, once over a certain amount (Not sure the exact minimum these days, but it ain't much; below $1,000), then you do have to declare it as income and pay state & federal income tax.

-Even if you are running a business you do not need a tax number if you're a sole proprietorship and don't have employee's. It's a reasonable guess the family of 8 is not a corporation. Or maybe they already filed their LLC. <-sarcasm.

You do if you're making a profit on goods. Labor is not taxable, but products are, no matter how small your business is.

Only the end user pays sales tax. If they resell it, the sales tax has already been paid. Used cars can have more than one user, so one tax paid per user. If they sell "used" ammo, then a second tax needs to be paid. Kind of hard to sell "used" ammo. I think we call that brass.

If you're reselling for profit, you're not the end user. WRT automobiles, the sales tax is paid by the buyer at the time of registration.

You really don't seem to understand the difference between making a profit on an item you sell and selling items for the express purpose of making profit. Sure, we've all managed to sell things for more than we paid at some point, but there is a big difference between selling an item you bought for personal use and making a little on the sale, and buying items specifically to resell immediately for a profit. Don't believe me? Ask the IRS. And yes, sometimes you owe income taxes on items you resell at a profit; It's called capital gains tax. Sell a rental home you own, you owe taxes on the profit if you don't reinvest in another rental property in X amount of days.

You also need to distinguish between whining and recognizing that some of these people are breaking laws while trying to make a quick buck. I have plenty of ammo, no need to buy $80+ .22 LR bricks or $1,000 cases of 5.56mm here. I'm pretty much just sitting back and rolling my eyes at people who are paying these prices. I'm also laughing at those (especially businesses) who think that making obscene profits on a scarce commodity won't bite them in the derriere at a later time. We saw it in '08; I watched 2 local shops that profiteered shut their doors within a year of the market normalizing. People remembered who was trying to screw them, and never went back.
 
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