10/22 HB or .22 Bolt
- Thread starter CTGunner
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CZ. Period. Unless you get a good deal on an Anschutz or Kimber.
Sold my 10-22 Target after a year of tuning, add-ons, upgrades and so on. CZ455 beats it hands down out of the box. FWIW....a Contender Carbine .22lr has turned in some of the best, consistent groups I have seen yet, for a sporter (3/8 - 1/2" time after time at 50 meters.)
Sold my 10-22 Target after a year of tuning, add-ons, upgrades and so on. CZ455 beats it hands down out of the box. FWIW....a Contender Carbine .22lr has turned in some of the best, consistent groups I have seen yet, for a sporter (3/8 - 1/2" time after time at 50 meters.)
ColtPythonElite
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CZ...outta the box even the worst I have seen shot great for a sporter. A really good trigger can be had in 15, minutes for no or very little money spent.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
I would go with the 10/22 option they are great!
Heavy + in my mind for the general utility.
ER Shaw heavy barrel $100
Boyds stock $100
I shot an Anschutz in Jr rifle club so long ago I can barely remember. I could shoot Xs at 50' with it all day (as I recall the 10 ring was about .23-.24)
Wish I had it now. (it was the Armys not mine)
Heavy + in my mind for the general utility.
ER Shaw heavy barrel $100
Boyds stock $100
I shot an Anschutz in Jr rifle club so long ago I can barely remember. I could shoot Xs at 50' with it all day (as I recall the 10 ring was about .23-.24)
Wish I had it now. (it was the Armys not mine)
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It depends on what you want. A 10/22 can be made every bit as accurate as a CZ, Marlin or Savage boltgun but it 'can' cost twice as much money to do it. That is, unless you do it as bare bones as possible. A used $150 10/22 carbine with a +$200 premium barrel (Clark, Shilen, Lilja or KID, not the hundred dollar el cheapos) will get you there. Throw in a $35 VQ hammer and you're set.
The mistake many make and IMHO the reason for much of the rhetoric from bolt gun shooters is from the use of cheap aftermarket heavy barrels. Get a good barrel and it will shoot as well as a bolt.
The mistake many make and IMHO the reason for much of the rhetoric from bolt gun shooters is from the use of cheap aftermarket heavy barrels. Get a good barrel and it will shoot as well as a bolt.
aarondhgraham
Member
Do you want fun or accuracy,,,
Do you want fun or accuracy,,,
That's a valid question.
The 10/22 may be the most popular semi-auto in America,,,
It's reliable, shoots fast, and accessories for it are abundant everywhere.
But, out of the box it's accuracy can be easily challenged,,,
By just about any other decent semi-auto rifle,,,
Until you start hopping it up it's only so-so.
I have a $109.00 Mossberg 702 Plinkster,,,
Perhaps my friends are simply not very good shots,,,
But my rifle places groups theirs have not ever been able to match.
But a hi-quality rifle such as my CZ-452 Military Trainer,,,
That puppy placed a 1.2" group at 100 yards,,,
Right out of the box.
Every CZ I have seen is like that.
Buy what makes you happy,,,
Minute of tin can at 50 yards is lotsa fun.
Just don't think that any stock 10/22,,,
Is going to give you pinpoint accuracy out of the box.
Aarond
.
Do you want fun or accuracy,,,
That's a valid question.
The 10/22 may be the most popular semi-auto in America,,,
It's reliable, shoots fast, and accessories for it are abundant everywhere.
But, out of the box it's accuracy can be easily challenged,,,
By just about any other decent semi-auto rifle,,,
Until you start hopping it up it's only so-so.
I have a $109.00 Mossberg 702 Plinkster,,,
Perhaps my friends are simply not very good shots,,,
But my rifle places groups theirs have not ever been able to match.
But a hi-quality rifle such as my CZ-452 Military Trainer,,,
That puppy placed a 1.2" group at 100 yards,,,
Right out of the box.
Every CZ I have seen is like that.
Buy what makes you happy,,,
Minute of tin can at 50 yards is lotsa fun.
Just don't think that any stock 10/22,,,
Is going to give you pinpoint accuracy out of the box.
Aarond
.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
My "Cheap" ER Shaw 10-22 barrel seems very accurate. Far better than I can shoot sitting, kneeling or offhand. Others may be a much better shot than I am. Maybe from prone or from a rest the others might be better.
I mean if you spend twice as much it has to be better right?
Volquartsen stock $200, Boyd's $100 (Not knocking Volquartsen they make nice stuff, just pricy)
Bedding kit $10. Wolf springs $10. Polish + polishing wheel for Dremel $10.
Polish up the sear and hammer-15 minutes. (hard to mess things up if you are just polishing)
Grinding bit for Dremel ($2.00) (to grind out the bolt release) 5 minutes.
(hint the shank off an old Dremel grinding wheel will make a perfect captive pin for reassembly)
As for the scope I am currently using a inexpensive Tasco center fire scope. Was plannning on upgrading later but am happy with and just have never got aroud to upgrading. It has a recticle that sort of looks like <+> The <> part makes it quick on larger targets. I agree more expensive scopes are nicer(some much nicer) and own some, it's all a matter of what you want to spend. As far as scopes go the sky is the limit. Since mine is a "fun gun" my choice of a less expensive scope has not brought me grief yet.
I mean if you spend twice as much it has to be better right?
Volquartsen stock $200, Boyd's $100 (Not knocking Volquartsen they make nice stuff, just pricy)
Bedding kit $10. Wolf springs $10. Polish + polishing wheel for Dremel $10.
Polish up the sear and hammer-15 minutes. (hard to mess things up if you are just polishing)
Grinding bit for Dremel ($2.00) (to grind out the bolt release) 5 minutes.
(hint the shank off an old Dremel grinding wheel will make a perfect captive pin for reassembly)
As for the scope I am currently using a inexpensive Tasco center fire scope. Was plannning on upgrading later but am happy with and just have never got aroud to upgrading. It has a recticle that sort of looks like <+> The <> part makes it quick on larger targets. I agree more expensive scopes are nicer(some much nicer) and own some, it's all a matter of what you want to spend. As far as scopes go the sky is the limit. Since mine is a "fun gun" my choice of a less expensive scope has not brought me grief yet.
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almherdfan
Member
Perhaps a nice compromise would be a Marlin 60-very good accuracy in auto loader. I love my 10/22. It's very fun to shoot-accurate enough for plinking & flexible enough to tune/configure to the heart's content. I also have a modest Savage MK II bolt gun for better precision shooting (not that I'm a competition shooter). The Marlin is great as long as a tube mag is OK.
ColtPythonElite
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If you want to save money, don't buy a CZ. Once you try one model, you end up wanting them all.
22-rimfire
Member
I think it depends on YOU mostly and what you like to do with a 22 rifle. If you mostly want to plink, there is no question that I would choose the Ruger 10/22. A semi-auto is just more fun as far as I'm concerned. The Marlin Model 60 is also a good one. I think just about anyone who shoots 22's needs a 10/22.
If you want to hunt where one shot is enough or punch paper, then a bolt would probably suit you better. I just picked up a CZ 452 Trainer new the other day and it was priced about the same as a 10/22. I still enjoy rapid fire 22's, but I tend to enjoy hitting what I aim at more.
If you want to hunt where one shot is enough or punch paper, then a bolt would probably suit you better. I just picked up a CZ 452 Trainer new the other day and it was priced about the same as a 10/22. I still enjoy rapid fire 22's, but I tend to enjoy hitting what I aim at more.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
And the factory heavy barrels aren't going to shoot much better than the carbines. Ruger makes a good barrel but they tend to cut the chambers a little loose. Recutting the crown often helps too.
I hate to break it to some here but my Savage is more accurate than my CZ. Not a lot more but some. It's enough more accurate that I wouldn't think twice about which one I would use in a competition. It would be the Savage hands down. I love my CZ. It is a solid rifle and very accurate. But my Savage is just more accurate and it cost about $175 less.
BTW most Anschutz rifles in the same price range as a CZ will be 64 series rifles and will not shoot that much better than a CZ if they do it at all. The 54 series Anschutz rifles are the ones that really shoot. And they cost a good bit more than a 64 series. I almost bought a 64 series but I talked myself out of it for this very reason.
Craig is right about Rugers shooting as well as a bolt action but it costs a good bit to get there. Out of the box they won't even match a Marlin 60 for accuracy. I've compared many of them against each other right out of the box and the Marlins have won every time. Those things shoot pretty well but you get what you get. You can't make one shoot better like you can a Ruger.
You can probably buy a MkI Savage and get it to shoot as well as a CZ actually. The bull barrel is an asset but mostly it helps keep barrel flex down and keeps heat from becoming an issue. And heat really isn't that much of an issue in a .22 so the MkI Savages will shoot very close to the MkII's until they heat up. Still the bull barrel's stiffness makes for a more accurate rifle hot or cold.
BTW most Anschutz rifles in the same price range as a CZ will be 64 series rifles and will not shoot that much better than a CZ if they do it at all. The 54 series Anschutz rifles are the ones that really shoot. And they cost a good bit more than a 64 series. I almost bought a 64 series but I talked myself out of it for this very reason.
Craig is right about Rugers shooting as well as a bolt action but it costs a good bit to get there. Out of the box they won't even match a Marlin 60 for accuracy. I've compared many of them against each other right out of the box and the Marlins have won every time. Those things shoot pretty well but you get what you get. You can't make one shoot better like you can a Ruger.
You can probably buy a MkI Savage and get it to shoot as well as a CZ actually. The bull barrel is an asset but mostly it helps keep barrel flex down and keeps heat from becoming an issue. And heat really isn't that much of an issue in a .22 so the MkI Savages will shoot very close to the MkII's until they heat up. Still the bull barrel's stiffness makes for a more accurate rifle hot or cold.
I get a kick out of the Ruger haters, granted my CZ452 varmint will shoot tighter groups and my Kimber tighter yet. My 'stock' 10/22 target took 1st place in the summer league shooting a perfect 20 siloutte score in 30 seconds. That's 4 banks of 5 targets at 25, 50, 75 and 100yds. A Marlin didn't even place.
As for the original question...for accuracy get a good bolt gun. For an fun yet plenty accurate gun get the Ruger Target 10/22
Dudedog, you must have shot 4 pos as a junior about the same time as I did 70's ? I just got back into it and the std target is what we used to call the Internationals...10 ring at 50' is the size of a HEAD OF A PIN.
Dudedog, you must have shot 4 pos as a junior about the same time as I did 70's ? I just got back into it and the std target is what we used to call the Internationals...10 ring at 50' is the size of a HEAD OF A PIN.
primalmu
Member
I had a 10/22, then I bought a CZ 452. The 10/22 was sold shortly thereafter.
FiveInADime
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That's a little anecdotal, don't you think? How many Marlins were competing in your silhouette competition? I don't know how small the targets are, but it seems to me that the difference between an MOA .22 rifle at 50 yards and a 1/2MOA would matter little in a silhouette match. A 'Target' model 10/22 is not the 'stock' 10/22 most refer to. That said, I would take on your 'Target' model with my Marlin 795 on a 50-yard benchrest target. I have nearly cleared one with several X's in the past. I consistently shoot in the 90's on a ten-bull target.
As a serial CZ promoter, I'll say that the CZ guns are very satisfying to own and operate. I highly recommend that every shooter try one, and perhaps the best one to start with happens to be the most affordable, the 452 Military Trainer. Just be forewarned, it will probably lead to a CZ collection growing in your safe.
Here's the Trainer:
Here's the Trainer:
ColtPythonElite
Member
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The 452 series tangent sights are best sights I have ever used on a stock gun. The distance changes on the rear work perfectly with high velocity 40 gr ammo......I hate the new sights on the 455.
So you're comparing a "target" model against a 60 (there are no special models of the 60 unless you count the differences in stocks and bluing vs. stainless) and you think it's impressive that it won??? What's it cost, double the price of a regular 10/22? That bull barrel doesn't improve a thing does it? If not, why did you pay for it?
Like I said, I've compared lots of 10/22's against Marlin 60's both right out of the box or less than a week old and the Marlins have won EVERY time. Of course you can't buy 6 different rifles that are called Model 60's like you can with the Rugers and I've never seen or shot a 10/22 target model. But comparing a rifle that's built to be a target rifle against a standard rifle is hardly fair.
BTW this "Ruger hater" owns a Ruger pistol and I've been looking for another (a Mark II is definitely on my bucket list). I've also been thinking about buying one of the new Ruger America centerfire rifles in .243. Yeah I "hate" Ruger. I have to admit I do think it's funny that some get so touchy when you say anything bad about their fabulous 10/22's. Why they're the best rifles on earth! You would be surprised how often I've heard that.
Just for the record I shot a .39" group with my Marlin 60 at 90 yards within a week of buying it. I haven't really used it as a target rifle though so I don't shoot a lot of groups with it. It's a hunting, all purpose rifle. I did put a bullet in a squirrel's ear from 50 yards with it. Actually I hit just behind the ear which is exactly where I was aiming. I shoot pop cans with it at 200 yards too. It's just a great shooting rifle and it shoots better than both of my friend's 10/22's he bought the same week I bought it. So does my old 60 with 150,000 rounds through it.
But this is all about me and my "hate" of Ruger. Keep thinking that. Only don't expect me to argue the point with you. I have better things to do than go off on a flame war. Have a nice day and I hope you enjoy your rifle.
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Yes they are. My 453 is my favorite .22 and I have quite a few nice rimfires. It's very well built, very nice looking and very accurate. There isn't much not to like. My only complaint is the walnut stock on mine is softer than it should be. It's been dinged and scratched a few times when it just shouldn't have been. It wasn't hit that hard. But it still looks great. The walnut on mine looks very nice and the trigger is out of this world IMO. It's well worth the extra money.
The Grand Baboon
Member
I owned a 10/22 and a MP15-22 and was highly displeased with both of them. They never had quite the accuracy I was looking for, and I found that neither of them were particularly well suited for hunting ground squirrels at any distance past 25 yards.
I sold both of them an picked up a CZ-452. I've now been able to take ground squirrels with open sights at ranges beyond 75 yards. My young eyes (21) are still able to see the little furry specks at some distance, so I've had great success with open sights.
In fact, I shot rifleman with the bolt gun at Appleseed on my first go-around. My high score for the weekend was a 237. It seemed that everyone with 10/22s were struggling to make Rifleman, even with the advantage of semi-auto. I was scrambling to work the bolt fast enough to make time, but the one-hole accuracy of the 452 was my saving grace. Once I shot rifleman, I never shot below it for the rest of the weekend.
All in all, you'll find that the CZs will surpass the Ruger in all respects. Quality and workmanship, accuracy, and overall performance.
I sold both of them an picked up a CZ-452. I've now been able to take ground squirrels with open sights at ranges beyond 75 yards. My young eyes (21) are still able to see the little furry specks at some distance, so I've had great success with open sights.
In fact, I shot rifleman with the bolt gun at Appleseed on my first go-around. My high score for the weekend was a 237. It seemed that everyone with 10/22s were struggling to make Rifleman, even with the advantage of semi-auto. I was scrambling to work the bolt fast enough to make time, but the one-hole accuracy of the 452 was my saving grace. Once I shot rifleman, I never shot below it for the rest of the weekend.
All in all, you'll find that the CZs will surpass the Ruger in all respects. Quality and workmanship, accuracy, and overall performance.
PJSprog
Member
Everyone has an opinion, and some are more persistent with them than others. There are people here who only seem to like one particular brand of rifle, and demean all others as substandard. I'm not one of those people. I have two Savage bolt rimfires and am quite satisfied with their performance. My wife has a 10/22 and is equally satisfied with it.
My advice: Find shooting friends or coworkers or neighbors or relatives who shoot rimfire and ask them to let you try their rifles. Go to a range with rentals and try their rifles. Go to a local range or club and ask the members there. Most shooters love to sell people on the merits of their favorite rifle (we rimfire people are especially nutty that way). Actually putting lead through the barrel will give you a far better idea of what you want than anything we can tell you here.
My advice: Find shooting friends or coworkers or neighbors or relatives who shoot rimfire and ask them to let you try their rifles. Go to a range with rentals and try their rifles. Go to a local range or club and ask the members there. Most shooters love to sell people on the merits of their favorite rifle (we rimfire people are especially nutty that way). Actually putting lead through the barrel will give you a far better idea of what you want than anything we can tell you here.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Don't take this wrong, but how the heck are WE suppose to know what YOU want? WANT is a personal factor.
What you NEED in a rifle is accuracy, reliability, and functional usefulness.
By functionally useful, I mean that it's something that you'll actually be comfortable carrying with you and using, as well as suiting the purpose you want it for. If it's not these things, then it won't matter what kind of rifle you get, you'll not like it and therefore will not want to use it.
There are any number of .22 rifles out there that will fit the bill, all well within your established budget. Here are some things to consider in making your choice:
1. Handle a few rifles and see how they feel. You should be able to sight comfortably and easily with the iron sights. I don't mind a little weight, but it might be more of a concern to you than it is for me.
2. For simplicity, reliability, and easy of breakdown/cleaning, you can't beat a bolt action. Well, unless you go single-shot, that is. Semi-autos, though great in their own right, are a bit more complicated for general cleaning and maintenance. Not difficult, but definitely not nearly so simplistic as a bolt action.
3. If you have the chance, shoot a few. If you have any buddies with some, check them out on the range.
I said "want" is a personal thing...and it is. When I bought my first rifle at 18, I had done MONTHS of looking waiting for my birthday to come. I wanted a bolt action...and the tube fed magazine was really an attractive feature to me. As a result, I settled on the Marlin 783 bolt action .22 WMR. Loved the montecarlo style stock and boy, was it an accurate and powerful rifle for a .22!
But it was the LOOK that sold me. I WANTED that rifle with all my heart.
I don't know what drives you...what makes you tick. Looks are an important part of the "want" factor. I say that so long as the rifle is accurate, reliable, and functionally useful, it will meet your NEED. So pick out what you WANT with this as your baseline. Plenty out there in that kind of budget.
And remember...there's absolutely NO reason why you can't buy another rifle at any time you wish, using your experiences with your first to guide you.
FiveInDime, I only brought up the 10/22 Target since the OP asked about a 10/22 HB (heavy barrel) which IS the target model. What 50yd BR target are you shooting? Only 50yd BR targets I ever shot in rim fire competition was a 25 bull with the 10 'ring' not much bigger than a head of a pin. I do shoot those with my Win 52, Kimber or 452 varmint though. 10/22 will do ok, just not against bolt target guns.
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