10/22 vs. Rem. 597

[Ringolevio]

Greetings, Fellow High Roaders!

I'd like to get some up-to-date opinions on the Ruger 10/22 vs. the Remington 597. There's a thread on this in the archives, but the last post was in 2008.

Please consider the following:

I want to get a .22lr semi-auto. Right now the only .22lr rifle I own is my Winchester 69A (bolt action), the first firearm I ever bought (for $35, circa 1975). It's a dandy rifle, very accurate, but I'm a southpaw, so I'd prefer a semi-auto, and one that will accept hi-cap mags.

I thought that a 10/22 was the obvious choice. But I also prefer stainless with a wood stock, which is a hard-to-find combo in a 10/22. I recently acquired a new ss/wood Mini-14, and I love it.

Today in a LGS (where they know me and are friendly and helpful, and where I bought a $1000 gun last year) I saw a new 597, stainless with a stock that appears to be wood laminate (really pronounced grain; very nice looking; good weight). I liked the look and feel of the rifle, and it doesn't have a barrel band like the 10/22 does, which I always thought was cheap-looking.

I'd never heard of a 597 before, and so I knew nothing about it before I looked it up in the THR archives. The gunshop guy told me it was more accurate out-of-the-box than a 10/22.

I can buy the 597 for $220 otd, maybe a bit less. Maybe I could find one cheaper, but that's certainly affordable and less hassle than hunting for one (and dealing with someone I don't know).

Now, please bear in mind that I would probably leave either rifle stock (unaltered) with the exception of a sling, hi-cap mags and possibly a scope. I know that there is no limit to the aftermarket options available for a 10/22, but I doubt I'd want any of them.

The 10/22's mag release is more convenient for a lefty than the 597's (which is on the right side), but I could probably live with that.

I know that many people say the 597 is more accurate than the 10/22, but I'm just as concerned about reliability and longevity (I'd like to keep it forever). The old thread said that 597 mags were problematic, and that the 597's tighter chamber meant that it would require more frequent cleaning; is that so?

So, with all that in mind, what would you do if you were me?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Cheers, "Ringolevio"

 

[Gdbyrd]

I would buy the 10/22. I know you may want to leave the rifles totally stock now, but in the future you may change your mind..and then your options are limitless.

I owned 8 10/22s at one time. In stock form they're solid guns, accurate enough, triggers suck but they break in. I have the same one I've had since I was 12(I'm 27 now), and for 5 or so years I was shooting 2-3k rounds a month easily, sometimes I'd shoot that in a weekend..just depends on what was going on. Gun still is great.

I do not own a 597 so I cannot compare the two : / From my reading though I can surmise that the Rem is a much better built rifle initially. If you indeed to plan to leave it stock then it may be the better option. But for me, the 10/22s just bulletproof and limitless, especially for the volumes I tend to shoot.

 

[GooseGestapo]

"Out-of-the-box", the Remington's will out-shoot the Rugers.

However, there are many, many more aftermarket items for the Rugers.

The biggest problem with the Remington M597 is the .22lr magazines aren't reliable. I've got three for my .22lr and none of the three will reliably function with over 8rds (10rd capacity- guess why!) The 30rd magazine I have for it isn't much better.....

I've had several 10/22's, but couldn't warm up to them. Most acccurate was a laminted stock stainless. After I traded it, I discovered the scope was the culprit with long range accuracy. With a different scope it would shoot under 1" at 50yds with decent ammo. My M597 will shoot near 1/2" with decent ammo, however. Just last week, I checked some Winchester bulk pack (The 555box), at 100yds. Got two 10-shot groups that went ~1.25"

Mine has however had barrel free-floated (more than it had originally), action glass bedded into Boyds ''Pepper" laminated stock, and trigger stoned to ~2lb, and a trigger stop installed in the trigger guard.....

My M597 .22mag is a different story. It too has the stock and trigger treatment. The magazines have been stone-cold reliable except with the discontinued CCI 50gr Gold Dot load. These on the first round from a full magazine would stovepipe or hang up on the top of the chamber. All other ammo is reliable. This rifle is MOA with Winchester 40gr FMJ, JHP, all of the V-max loads, and the CCI "game point" JSP loads. It doesn't however like any of the "plated" bullets for accuracy....

added: my magazines are the new metal ones. They're not steel, but zamak (zinc/magnesium ie: pot metal).

 

[ilivas]

I think the problem with the mags was really only with the old plastic mags. New ones are steel. I have two steel mags, and have not had any issues.

 

[rule303]

I would have to say Ruger all the way. More reliable, and better fit and finish IMO. Accuracy and trigger quality between the two are almost identical. Look on Rugers web site, there is at least 25 different models to choose from, so if you aren't into customizing, you should be able to find one with whatever features you want right from the mfg. In the rare instance you do have issues, Ruger will go out of their way to make it right.

 

[bearman49709]

I bought both in 1998,the Ruger was gone the same year but I still have the Remington>If I had bought only the 10/22 I might still have it, but the 597 was just a little better in every way.Some people had problem's with the plastic mag's, but mine has been flawless since new. I have over 20'000 round's through mine and have not cleaned the mag yet, and have no problem loading 10 rounds every time.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

I've got a 597 and my g/f a 10/22.

Personally I prefer the 597. Better trigger out of the box (VQ makes a replacement as well). The Remington action is very slick right out of the box and uses dual guide rods, it has never had a problem firing subsonic ammo of any type since new. Last shot hold open from the factory and the 10 round mags drop free with no messing. Mine is a bit picky on ammo for best accuracy, but shoots well with nothing other than some additional smoothing to the trigger. I have never had a problem with the original mag (the newer "circle 10" type). My spare 10 rounder was a bit stiff at first, but a bit of wiggling got 10 rounds in there and it is fine after leaving it loaded for a while. The factory 30 rounders have feed just fine out of the box although I have had to sand them down a bit so they come out of the rifle easily.

The 10/22 has far more aftermarket stuff. However, Ruger really does skimp on finishing their metal. The outside of the barrel has record grooves just like most Russian Mosins and the inside of the receiver is just as rough as the outside. The action on my g/f's rifle was just gritty feeling until I went through it with fine sandpaper. That's not just the trigger, but also the bolt, bolt guide rod and inside of the receiver. After smoothing and polishing, the trigger is a nice 5# pull but with a bit more creep than the Remington. The Rugers bolt still doesn't cycle as smoothly as the stock Remington either.

One other thing is the Ruger only uses one screw to attach the action to the stock. This means you either have to bed part of the barrel, or modify the receiver to add a second screw if you want to float the barrel. Remington uses two bolts to attach the receiver and is close to free floated out of the box.

I will also add that you should consider the Marlin 60 (tube mag) and 795 (box mag) for a semi-auto .22. Marlins have a great rep for accuracy and are fun to shoot as well.

 

[Jonny V]

the 597 is a better rifle in every way but one. There are two guide rods and two guide springs, and getting them back into the rifle is a pain. The Ruger guy is going to spend a couple hundred dollars getting his rifle to shoot as well as the 597. However, you can't really customize the 597.

Personally, after shooting numerous 3" 50 shot groups at 100 yards, I don't know why anyone would "customize" a 597.

 

[slowr1der]

"Out-of-the-box", the Remington's will out-shoot the Rugers.

Not the ones I've seen. I could agree with this if we were talking about the Marlin 60's, but I can't agree with it for the 597. The 597 is in no way anywhere close to the quality of the 10/22. They aren't even in the same league.

 

[PO2Hammer]

My 10/22 shot poorly out of the box, but an aftermarket hammer ($30 Volquartsen) fixed the trigger pull and darned if the gun didn't shoot much better. With a 4X scope 3/4" groups at 50 yards are the norm with quality ammo, and 1 to 1-1/2" with discount 'bulk' .22 ammo.
Reliability has been perfect since day one.
Go over to rimfirecentral.com for more opinions.

 

[MachIVshooter]

It would be a tougher call if Ruger hadn't cheapened the 10/22 so much, while increasing the price. The plastic butt plate and receiver are a huge turn-off to me.

I'd have to go 597.

There are 30 round mags for the 597, too (among other accessories)

They also have the VTR version, if you want more "tacticool". They're around $300.

 

[slowr1der]

It would be a tougher call if Ruger hadn't cheapened the 10/22 so much, while increasing the price. The plastic butt plate and receiver are a huge turn-off to me.

I'd have to go 597.

There are 30 round mags for the 597, too (among other accessories)

Is this a joke? Have you ever handled a 597? A good buddy has one and if you have a problem with a few plastic parts on the 10/22 it's no way you will like a 597.

That being said, there aren't really any good high capacity magazines for the 597. The ones that are out there get horrible reviews.

I could see an argument for the Marlin 60 over a 10/22, even though I'd prefer the 10/22. However, I can't see how anyone can argue the 597 over the 10/22, the quality is no where near the same on the two. The 597 is the definition of cheap. I'd look into a Marlin 60, or 597 if you wanted a "Remington" product that was cheaper than the 10/22. You'd be much better off in the long run.

 

[SG1]

+1 on rimfirecentral.com

I've had a 597 for a few years now. I have well over 2000 rounds through mine without the slightest hiccup. And I don't like cleaning my .22lr's very often. Mine hates dirty Remington rounds, but filthy Federal cheapies run through it like butter. It's more accurate than I am, and it feels like a big rifle. My 10 round mag that came with the rifle has caused no problems. My 30 round mag works great with 25 rounds in it, but sticks a bit with 30. The ONLY problem I've had with the 30 round aftermarket mag is that it doesn't hold the bolt open after the last round unless I clean the little tab after firing a mag each time.

My dad has a tricked out 10/22 and I wouldn't trade it for my 597 even if he was offering boot. I've also owned a Marlin 60. All 3 are good .22 rifles in my opinion, having owned both the Marlin and the Ruger, but I love my 597.

 

[fatcat4620]

Stock vs stock the 597 wins all the way. The 597 feel like it was made for adults while the ruger feels like my son's. 22

 

[stchman]

IMO, a stock 10/22 carbine is not the most accurate .22LR rifle. They are however some of the most reliable .22LR rifles out there.

If you want accuracy out of a 10/22 get the 10/22 Target or Tactical with the heavy barrel.

A Remington will be more accurate in stock form, but a 10/22 can be customized in literally countless ways.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Have you ever handled a 597?

Had one, gave it to a friend for his 10 YO boy to learn on.

The 597 has an alloy receiver.

It also has last shot BHO, a rare feature on rimfires. AFAIK, the 522 Viper is the only other one (got one of them, too)

And I didn't state that I had a particular problem with polymer in general, but I do when a part that was designed and inteded to be metal has been replaced by it as a cost cutting measure, while increasing the price of the firearm.

My biggest beef with the 10/22 is that they're ugly, chunky and poorly balanced. Always were. And yes, I have a 10/22.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Is this a joke? Have you ever handled a 597? A good buddy has one and if you have a problem with a few plastic parts on the 10/22 it's no way you will like a 597.

Come again? Both have the same plastic parts:

Fire control group housing / trigger guard
Parts of the mag (mag body and follower for Ruger, floorplate and follower for Rem)
Stock. The Ruger is easy to get with a wood stock, but wood is available for both if desired.

 

[Leathermarshmallow]

I have a 10/22 that I have had for many years. It is a great rifle and I wouldn't part with it. I also have a 597 .22mag. It is scoped and a fine rifle also. I don't think you could go wrong with either!

 

[Virg461]

I have a 597 and my brother has a 10/22. The 597 is more accurate, and feels more like an adult size rifle. If you're a six-footer, the 10/22 is definitely going to feel small (just like the Marlin 795). Really, you can't go wrong with either as far as reliability. The bad rap that the 597's got during the early days was purely mag based. The mags have been greatly improved. I bought my Remington about 3 years ago, and it's been a dream. I can shoot Wolf MT through it and get MOA groups at 50 yards. Cycles subsonics well, which his 10/22 has problems with.

If you do get the 597, check the guide rods. There are two screws on the back of the receiver that hold them in place, and they shouldn't be too tight. Sometimes they're screwed in too tight at the factory, and there's a slight bind to the guide rods. This is the only reason for a 597 to not cycle subsonics. HV rounds work no matter what.

Again, both are good guns. If you're not a long-armed fella like I am, you might also want to take a look at the Marlin 795. Also a very accurate rifle, and you can buy two of them for the price of one 10/22!

 

[CraigC]

I've owned and shot both for a number of years. I think the 597 is a little better out of the box. It's definitely more accurate and I like its magazine release. The trigger is heavy but crisp and predictable. I think both rifles have a roughly equal amount of plastic so that's a non-issue in a comparison. All that changes as soon as you want to change more than just a $40 part to improve the trigger. If you want more, the 10/22 has it all over any other rimfire rifle. The Ruger quickly becomes the better rifle.

I tracked prices over several years and found that while most other Rugers have increased at a rate of 26-28% over that period, the 10/22 has increased by only 16%. Inflation was 19%. I think all the complaints about the polymer parts are unfounded. Nothing looks crappier on a rifle than dinged and scratched up aluminum. The new polymer trigger housing is stronger, more accurately produced and its color is molded-in. They accept all the same internal tuning parts that the aluminum housings accept. IMHO, they are an upgrade. I could understand the grumbling if they used to be polished and blued steel. Not coated aluminum. I've also had zero issues with the 10/22 I have with a wrinkle finished receiver.

 

[ilivas]

I agree that the 597 is more accurate out of the box then a 10/22.

 

[Ringolevio]

The decision has been taken

"Ringolevio" here...

I want to thank all of you for generously sharing your experiences, opinions and advice.

With all due respect for those who prefer the 597 (and believe me, I like the look and feel of the stainless/laminate 597 and hoped it would be at least the equal of the 10/22), I have decided that I will look instead for a stainless/wood or laminate 10/22.

This decision was taken mostly on the advice of my gunsmith, who has seen quite a few of both.

Yes, almost everyone agrees that the 597 is more accurate out-of-the-box. But it's reliability issues that push the equation in favor of the 10/22.

Thanks again to all of you.

=========
Ringolevio was a game played on the streets of NYC in my youth. Emmett Grogan used it as the title of his autobiography, in which the game was a metaphor for "a life played for keeps".