158 gr .357 magnum SD rounds?

[Guy B. Meredith]

I am using a 4" K frame and am looking for a "big and slow" self defense round that won't eat up the forcing cone and top strap. Slow being relative, of course.

 

[Steve C]

Typical 158gr semi JHP loaded by the Federal, Winchester or Remington will work fine for SD but expect a healthy dose of muzzle blast and recoil since they all run about 1,240 fps from a 4" barrel at the muzzle. This ammo usually isn't difficult to find and usually comes in boxes of 50.

If you want smaller packages using a more premium bullet, Federal makes their Hydra-shok in .357 mag using a 158gr bullet as does Speer in the Gold Dot and Hornady in the XTP.

 

[19-3Ben]

Steve is spot on. I'll add that Streichers has 158gr. Speer Gold Dot in 50 round boxes.

I like carrying a heavily loaded .158gr load in the woods with my Security Six. Mine has always been a 158.gr Gold Dot loaded by Double Tap (which they no longer load) or Buffalo Bore. Out of a K frame I'd be a little more hesitant.

As an aside, the forcing cones tend to get eaten up by lighter loads like the 125gr. .357mag. Not sure what a heavily loaded 158gr. load would do.

 

[eldon519]

The Winchester 145 gr Silvertip gets a decent amount of respect. There are also reduced power 125gr loads like the Golden Saber. I'd be careful picking a 158 without careful research. Many of them are meant for hunting and some are just old school designs that don't expand as reliably as newer designs. In either case, over peneteation is very likely. I saw a gel test in denim where a 158 gr Hydrashok failed to expand well and had 30+ inches of gel penetration. That's about twice what you want it to do for SD on humans.

 

[BSA1]

You are correct about 125 gr. magnums being hard on K-frames but how many of them do you intend to shoot over the time you own the gun?

Another choice would use the old FBI load; 158 gr. SWC.

As always you should test fire ammunition from your gun into test media (layers of clothing over water barrel or jugs is a good poor man's test media) before making a final decision.

 

[scythefwd]

30".. I'd not say it's twice what you want, I believe it's barely twice the minimum recommended.. It is a bit excessive, but thats picking nits.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I carry those 158 gr Speers. Accurate ammo and hot enough it should expand from my 3" bbl guns.

 

[mnhntr]

any 158gr lswc is usually loaded like a target load and is also very effective as a SD load and in some cases better than JHPs.

 

[eldon519]

Recommended is 12" minimum for FBI. 30”+ is enough to go through two people. I'd consider that excessive. I can't think of a situation for SD where that is desirable. If nothing else you are dealing with significantly more recoil than necessary to get the job done.

Maybe a missed what the OP is trying to defend himself from, but I am assuming humans.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

At what distances are the gelatin test loads fired?

The intended use is against people with evil intent at combat distances and I want to make sure the intended target is the only one going down. I am also concerned about the number of hopped up perps that need some serious damage before they notice.

Okay, maybe an extra moonclip of high penetraters for dealing with huge mobs of screaming hopped up gangsters where a twofer might be more useful with six rounds in the cylinder.

I have done some target shooting with .357 Magnums and some of my hand loads that reached over 1,300 fps and can attest to the fact that these feel very brisk in the K frame. I also discovered the K frame delivers higher velocity than my 686+ and 5" 627. It really grabs the shooter's attention.

The intent, though, is to be competent so I want something the K frame can handle as a steady diet. In the end it might just be a very hot .38 spl??

 

[19-3Ben]

Many of them are meant for hunting and some are just old school designs that don't expand as reliably as newer designs. In either case, over peneteation is very likely. I saw a gel test in denim where a 158 gr Hydrashok failed to expand well and had 30+ inches of gel penetration. That's about twice what you want it to do for SD on humans.

But that's also Hydrashoks. Not really fair to taint modern ammo with an expansion failure in a 20+ year old design. The lack of reliable expansion is something that was known in Hydrashok, 9BPLE, etc... that were all as good as it got back in those days. Clothing clogged them up and prevented them from expanding. These days technology has greatly increased the reliability of SD rounds. Granted, they can still fail, no doubt about it. The newer generation of ammo (Gold Dots, HST, Ranger T, and some others) happens to be more reliable because it does benefit from another decade of advancement and understanding of the dynamics involved.

Long story short, your info about 158gr. loads not expanding is kind of like the accepted "truth" that 147gr, 9mm does not expand. It's info that applies to dated ammo. Try the same tests with a 158gr. Gold Dot and see what happens. I haven't personally tested the expansion of it, but there are enough tests out there to prove its reliability well enough for me.

 

[19-3Ben]

In the end it might just be a very hot .38 spl??

If you're going to shoot in volume, this may be best. Of course, if you plan to shoot high quality defensive ammo in large volume, you're going to spend a serious chunk of change.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I'm running some Hornady .357 XTP hollow points in .38
Special handloads and they are awesome....excellent penetration and massive expansion even at moderate velocities. The engineering and construction of SD hollow points really is better than it was 20 years ago.

I'd not hesitate to use my .38 Specials with the XTP's for SD and can see no reason they would not perform as well if not better out of a .357. I think one could get penetration in excess of 15" with expansion to .50" without pushing the absolute limits of the .357 magnum. This would result in very capable SD rounds with less flash and recoil than commonly associated with full house 158 gr. .357 magnum loads.

I do not know if a comparable factory round is being produced but I'd be surprised if it isn't. Shop for rounds using the Hornady XTP hollow points in 158 gr. The 125 gr. are pretty awesome as well and perform unbelievably well out of a .38 Special without massive recoil and flash to drive them to deep penetration and massive, controlled expansion.

VooDoo

 

[Water-Man]

Winchester Silvertips 145gr. STHP.

 

[eldon519]

Ben, that was sort of my point amigo. Not sure what you are missing. Research your load carefully. The first sentence you quoted from me was a caveat warning against outdated designs (like the Hydroshok). Unless something has changed, Federal and Winchester stopped updating their premium law enforcement lines in .357 magnum. So while there are great advances in HP technology, they aren't necessarily making their way into .357s as commonly as to other center fire calibers. That is why you still see things like Hydrashoks, Silvertips, generic SJHPs, etc on the market. The .357 magnum has someone frozen in terms of development. You are correct, the 158 Gold Dot is not a bad round though. If I was set on 158, that is what I would use.

 

[hardluk1]

If you want big and heavy , also slow for 357 there's several 180gr hp brands out there remmy, federal, winny and corbon . Go to ammo seek to find some.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I wouldn't call a 158gr bullet @1235 fps slow but I guess it could be called slower than a 125gr bullet @1450 fps.

If you're looking for a good round at lower prices I suggest the 158gr SJHP Remington .357 Magnum load still sold in 50 round boxes. I like the "rose peddle' bullet they use because it reliably expands. Nothing wrong with the offerings from Federal and Winchester either. The Speer Gold Dot ammo is also good but that's where the price starts going up. (sold in 20 round boxes)

 

[zxcvbob]

I carry a .357 for SD -- loaded with hot .38 Specials. Less muzzle blast, faster to get back on target, and faster reloads (because the empties are shorter)

 

[87hurricane]

I cooked up some nice +p .38 special rounds using 125gr XTPs that I keep in my Model 10 for HD. I'd have no problems running these in a .357 either, as they work very well.

 

[JTMcC]

I shoot a lot of 158 gr. XTP's, with enough Unique to drive them about 1170 fps.
Out of a 2 1/2" Colt.

J

 

[TwoWheelFiend]

I'd just shoot Buffalo Bore's .38 special FBI load. Big heavy slow and will shoot just fine out of your .357

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Thanks for all the input. I now have some serious(ly fun) product evaluation to do. Any ol' excuse to get to the range, you know.

 

[buck460XVR]

Blazer aluminum cased 158gr JHPs are an anemic round when fired from a full sized revolver, but I have found them to be accurate @ SD/HD distances and reliable. Might be a good option for a K-Frame.

 

[valnar]

I really miss the Fiocchi 148gr JHP .357 rounds. Can't find them anymore.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Barnes also makes some solid copper HPs. They are supposed to be for hunting but they would probably be good. 140 gr