Overkill???

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Well guys I'm a little embarrassed! Apparently my question has made me seem a Tad ignorant. I do however appreciate all comments and criticism. Yes I carry two different rounds in my snub. I have always been a "What If" kind of Guy. I am very confident in my Golden Sabers. They are my go to round. I have carried them for years in all calibers and I have always entrusted my life to them. But I started experimenting with different ammo and found that Gold Dots are to my liking also. So I was left to choose between my pet load or the GD. I chose BOTH in my little snub. No great logic behind it other than I believe the GD will be better against 4 legged critters and where I live that is a concern. If it helps to make me seem more sensible in your eyes both of my speedloaders are loaded with only Golden Sabers. If it doesn't then Oh Well. I gotta do what makes me comfortable. But I still appreciate all of your input. It has been very informative.


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Bigg Jimm said:
I chose BOTH in my little snub. No great logic behind it other than I believe the GD will be better against 4 legged critters that are a concern....
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Soooooo, wild animals are a concern, the Gold Dots are intended for said wild animals, but the first four rds up are Golden Sabre, the last three are the more accurate Gold Dots better suited for wild animals.....
 
No such thing as "overkill". Something is either alive or dead, and you can't get deader than dead.

There are some words that just need to be removed from the language
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"Overkill" isn't restricted to killing, per se. It can used to describe any incidence of using too much to achieve the desired goal.

Examples are:

Using a sledge hammer to drive ten penny nails.

Ordering a towing package on a truck when you have no intention of actually towing anything.

Stabbing someone 25 times after cutting their carotid artery has pretty much settled the matter.
 
If you don`t do any damage with those first 4 rounds, I really doubt the last 3 are going to close the deal. Unless the perp is using a hammer. J s/n.
 
I don't particularly believe in overkill. That said, I do wonder about the usefulness of lightweight .357 snub revolvers. Barrel lengths shorter that 3-4 inches really don't do justice to the cartridge, and the light weight can make the experience less than pleasant. But maybe I'm biased in favor of my 4" K frame.... :evil:
 
"Overkill" isn't restricted to killing, per se. It can used to describe any incidence of using too much to achieve the desired goal.
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I run in to a LOT of what I consider overkill to solve non-existent problems in internal combustion via electronics....most of it caused by the EPA, but that's treading on political. :D

I liked CDI ignitions, but I don't need no drive by wire. :rolleyes:
 
When your life is on the line, how do you define overkill?
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There are no varying degrees of death; dead is dead. As mentioned, use the biggest, most powerful round you can shoot effectively.
 
I used to use the 125 golden sabers in my 357s until I came to the realization that they do a great job of turning a 357 into a +p 9mm. I figure if I'm going to give up the capacity might as well take advantage of the power. I'd ditch the Golden Sabers and load up Gold dots. If as you say you shoot them well.
 
Just say no to ultra featherweight snubs with light bullet +P ammo. Not one of the human race's better ideas. Neither is drive by wire.
 
The 125 grain JHP bullet has always been the best performing round for self defense in a .357MAG handgun. When my department tested the .357MAG rounds years ago in the 80's, the 158 grain round would not go through our body armor. The 125 grain round would. So the department in it's infinite wisdom made the 158 grain round the only authorized round for carry. How stupid! The 125 grain round is what made the .357MAG famous for "one shot stops" in a handgun defense weapon. :banghead:

I knew a sergeant who shot a suspect in the mid section three times. The sergeant said he thought he had missed the guy, as the guy had no reaction. Finally the guy started to go into shock and went down! That's what a Remington 158 grain JHP round out of a four inch revolver performs like in the real world! Head shots and CNS hits are all that can be depended on! ;)
 
On the subject of recoil, everyone always worries about recoil. As has been stated earlier in the thread, in a real gun fight you won't even feel the recoil. You will have so much Adrenalin flowing that recoil is not a big factor. Everyone I have ever talked to that was involved in a shooting said the same thing. "I never felt the recoil and the report was muffled to the point I barley heard the weapon discharge." And that Jack is a fact! Always carry the most handgun you can carry.

There is another way to look at it. If you are a shotgun or center fire rifle hunter, the recoil hurts like hell when you are practice shooting at a target right? Now when you are shooting at flushed game ya never really feel the recoil do ya? I never do. I used to hunt upland game when I was younger. Shooting at clays or targets always banged up my shoulder. But let a Rabbit or a covey of Quail flush and I never felt the recoil.

That was especially true when I hunted Jack Rabbits in the high deserts of California. As they run fast and would get out ahead of ya quick, I always carried high base Magnum 12GA #4's for them. To shoot at tin cans and such would kill my shoulder. But in the field when a Jack Rabbit would get up and run, I never felt the shotgun's recoil. :D
 
Tuner just seems to be making so much sense. As I'm reading along and about to post something, the next post I read is Tuner's having already posted what I'd intended to post. ;) My solution to this "problem" is to carry a G26. :cool:
 
On the subject of recoil, everyone always worries about recoil. As has been stated earlier in the thread, in a real gun fight you won't even feel the recoil. You will have so much Adrenalin flowing that recoil is not a big factor. Everyone I have ever talked to that was involved in a shooting said the same thing. "I never felt the recoil and the report was muffled to the point I barley heard the weapon discharge." And that Jack is a fact! Always carry the most handgun you can carry.
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Not feeling the recoil does not suspend the laws of physics. The recoil will still be there, the sights will still move off target, and recovery will still be necessary. Whether you feel recoil or not, there is still the matter of having to come back on target for successive shots.
 
Posted by muleskinner1: On the subject of recoil, everyone always worries about recoil. As has been stated earlier in the thread, in a real gun fight you won't even feel the recoil. You will have so much Adrenalin flowing that recoil is not a big factor. Everyone I have ever talked to that was involved in a shooting said the same thing. "I never felt the recoil and the report was muffled to the point I barley heard the weapon discharge." And that Jack is a fact! Always carry the most handgun you can carry.
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Whether or not one "feels" the recoil has absolutely nothing to do with one's ability to control the firearm in rapid fire.

When one is attacked by a very fast moving violent criminal actor, shot placement will most probably be a matter of luck, and multiple hits will likely be needed regardless of which handgun round is used. Firing very rapidly--say, three to five rounds per second--and hitting the center of mass is much more difficult when the gun recoils significantly.
 
The larger the round, the greater the recoil. Yes I understand this. But, most people worry about recoil. During a shooting you won't feel the recoil like you will training. That is the point I'm trying to make. If a person trains with their weapon of choice, recoil is a secondary factor. "Train like you fight!" And then train some more. Most folks shoot less than a hundred rounds a year. Not good if you are going to bet your life on the weapon YOU carry!

As I have always been a handgun shooting enthusiast, not someone who just learned in the academy, I can shoot my .45ACP as well as I can shoot my 9MM. In fact, I actually shoot better with my P220 than with my Glocks, or my Beretta. And if you go a bit farther back in time, I shoot a revolver double action best! Go figure!
 
Posted by muleskinner1: If a person trains with their weapon of choice, recoil is a secondary factor.
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Training with what one carries is a great idea, but if the recoil is too heavy, getting multiple shots on target very quickly will be difficult.

For that reason I keep .38 non +P in the Airweight, and I carry a steel rather than alloy .45.
 
muleskinner1 said:
The larger the round, the greater the recoil.
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Not necessarily. It depends on the load and can also depend on the the gun.

But, most people worry about recoil.
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Because they don't know how to properly manage it. But with that said, there are some loads in some guns for some people that recoil waaaay too much.

If a person trains with their weapon of choice, recoil is a secondary factor. "Train like you fight!"
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If the recoil causes severe pain in practice, you're not going to train enough with it to attain any proficiency. The obvious example is a Corbon .357 load in an 11 oz Scandium framed snubby. Practicing only with .38's then stoking it with full magnum loads for carry because "you'll never notice the recoil" isn't a good idea in my book. I know I can quickly and accurately place the .38 Special LSWCHP +P loads where I want them, because I've practiced with them, so I carry those.
 
Posted by David E: If the recoil causes severe pain in practice, you're not going to train enough with it to attain any proficiency. The obvious example is a Corbon .357 load in an 11 oz Scandium framed snubby.
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True, and that is a good example.

There is another issue that should not be ignored: Extensive shooting of heavy-recoiling handguns (or rifles, for that matter) can lead to permanent injury and disability.

We should not confuse the boom and fuss at the shooter's end with handgun wounding effectiveness. Priority one is to be able to hit with the firearm; priority two is to be able to do that in very quick succession. As long as the round used has sufficient penetration and a reasonable permanent wound channel, it is enough.
 
Wow! So shooting a .45ACP will harm my hand???? Give me a break. I'm not advocating anyone use a 44MAG or an air weight with .357MAG rounds for a defense weapon. Or for continual practice either.That's stupid!

I've talked to too many coppers that have shot bad guys on drugs and booze with a 9MM and it did not work well. But I've also talked to coppers that have made one shot stops with the 9MM. Again. Shoot want you want and are accurate with. Practice like you fight! Me I shoot a 45ACP and the 40CAL.

Some small handed men and women like a 9MM. Hey carry a .380auto. Carry what you like or can shoot well. Lot's of departments are hiring small stature, lightly built folks who should not be cops these days. We all knew who they were! Try depending on one for a back up in a fight. It don't work! ;)
 
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