rugerman07
Member
I have a Rock Island 1911 A1. Is it safe to carry it with a round in the chamber on half cock with the safety in the off position, or would it be better to carry it on full cock with the safety on?
1911 A1 Locked & Loaded Question
- Thread starter rugerman07
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
The only two safe ways to carry a loaded 1911 is:
1. Cocked & locked.
Or:
2. Hammer all the way down against the slide.
(Inertia firing pin is too short to reach the primer)
The half-cock (really the intercept notch if the hammer slips) is not a safe carry position because a hard knock can shear or break the sear and the hammer can hit the firing pin with enough force to drive it into the primer.
rc
1. Cocked & locked.
Or:
2. Hammer all the way down against the slide.
(Inertia firing pin is too short to reach the primer)
The half-cock (really the intercept notch if the hammer slips) is not a safe carry position because a hard knock can shear or break the sear and the hammer can hit the firing pin with enough force to drive it into the primer.
rc
rugerman07
Member
I wondered also if this would be a safe carry with a round in the chamber. Forget the safety, just cock the hammer and fire?
berkbw
Member
Almost all of better known 1911 carry/SD experts say "Cocked and loaded". A well fit thumb safety is VERY hard to "acedintally" place in the "fire" mode. Thumb cocking introduces additional steps which cause delay, may have error.
b-
b-
dfariswheel
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I wondered also if this would be a safe carry with a round in the chamber. Forget the safety, just cock the hammer and fire?
You can carry this way, and many people new to the 1911 do so, being nervous about carrying cocked and locked.
The only hazard with carrying this way is the danger of an accidental discharge while lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber, or fumbling the gun while cocking it, especially under stress.
IF YOU PAY ATTENTION, the best way is cocked and locked, and this is mostly a matter of getting your mind wrapped around the concept.
You can carry this way, and many people new to the 1911 do so, being nervous about carrying cocked and locked.
The only hazard with carrying this way is the danger of an accidental discharge while lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber, or fumbling the gun while cocking it, especially under stress.
IF YOU PAY ATTENTION, the best way is cocked and locked, and this is mostly a matter of getting your mind wrapped around the concept.
kdstrick
Member
Mr. Browning intended it be be carried cocked and locked. That is why he put that nifty grip safety on it. Even IF the thumb safety gets bumped down into the 'fire' position, the pistol will NOT discharge a round... even with your finger on the trigger.. UNLESS the grip safety is engaged. Genius, right!? 
The 1911 platform is one of the safest pistols in the world.
The 1911 platform is one of the safest pistols in the world.
mljdeckard
Member
To be....infuriatingly technical, Browning designed it without the grip safety and added it later when the army requested it.
The pistol is designed to be carried a few different ways, but not on half-cock.
If the hammer being cocked gives you the willies, remind yourself that there are more mechanics preventing that hammer from falling than say, on a Glock with a round chambered, where you only have to pull the trigger to fire it.
The pistol is designed to be carried a few different ways, but not on half-cock.
If the hammer being cocked gives you the willies, remind yourself that there are more mechanics preventing that hammer from falling than say, on a Glock with a round chambered, where you only have to pull the trigger to fire it.
B BRI
Member
I'm no expert, but I heard it the other way around . . . JMB designed the pistol without the THUMB safety, and only added it to appease the Army Board.
+1 on Cocked and Locked.
+1 on Cocked and Locked.
kdstrick
Member
Good post B BRI... Interesting that JMB didn't include the thumb safety on the 1910 model.
B BRI
Member
Thanks kdstrick, and GREAT picture rondog . . . that's the way I heard it . . .
I have a photo of Browning's personal 1911 prototype and it does not have a thumb safety. It does appear to have a grip safety. I'm sure there were just as many dumb people around back then as now and they had lots of "accidents" as we see now, we just don't read about it because no one wrote about it back then. I believe Browning was probably somewhat frustrated by the Ordinance Board's insistence of safety devices but you have to understand that at that time our troops were still riding horses which required one handed operation for the pistol and the idea of a soldier on horseback with a cocked and loaded pistol galloping behind the commissioned officers scared them to death.
REAPER4206969
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
OOOOhhh! That looks sweet without the grip screws. Wonder exactly how the grip slabs are retained? Probably has something to do with the little metal tab at the top of the panel. Very nice looking gun!
-Sam
-Sam
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Ol' Charlie also had the grip safety tied down with a strip of rawhide I believe.
As I rembember the story, he had been wounded in a fight with a BG and was unable to shoot the guy off his back because he couldn't get the grip safety depressed. SO he tied it down and carried it that way the rest of his life.
rc
I carry whenever I legally can, and most of the time I carry a 1911. I carry it in Condition 1 -- round in the chamber, hammer cocked, safety engaged.
I'm a strong believer in the proposition that one should be able to readily deploy a handgun with one hand. And IME and IMO cocking the hammer of 1911 with one hand is something of a good trick. Some folks can do it, but how well and how consistently while under extreme stress? If the hammer slips while cocking it, you might not have an ND, but you will have a useless gun until you can finally get the hammer cocked. In my Cowboy Action Shooting days, I saw enough folks short stroke their hogslegs while cocking them (and single action revolvers are much easier to thumb cock) to be disinclined to want to try thumb cocking my 1911 under stress.
The major shooting school and instructors (like Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Mas Ayoob, Louis Awerbuck, etc.) recommend and teach carrying a 1911 in Condition 1.
I'm a strong believer in the proposition that one should be able to readily deploy a handgun with one hand. And IME and IMO cocking the hammer of 1911 with one hand is something of a good trick. Some folks can do it, but how well and how consistently while under extreme stress? If the hammer slips while cocking it, you might not have an ND, but you will have a useless gun until you can finally get the hammer cocked. In my Cowboy Action Shooting days, I saw enough folks short stroke their hogslegs while cocking them (and single action revolvers are much easier to thumb cock) to be disinclined to want to try thumb cocking my 1911 under stress.
The major shooting school and instructors (like Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Mas Ayoob, Louis Awerbuck, etc.) recommend and teach carrying a 1911 in Condition 1.
rugerman07
Member
Thanks for all the replies. I'm now thinking cocked & locked is the best way to go!
EOD Guy in VA
Member
More than once I've had the safety come off on a 1911 while being carried cocked and locked... result... a pistol with a relatively sensitive trigger that once gripped has no safety. It doesn’t happen often, but once is too often for me.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Yikes!
Had the same thing happen once with a Glock, er an xD, no no...I think it was an M&P. Something like that...-Sam
A good quality holster or a safety replacement should take care of that. I have a Kimber with a safety too easily disengaged. If it were my carry, I'd have the safety changed out. My Colt XSE, other Kimbers, etc are different. The engagement is much more solid on all those 1911's.
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