1911 Antiquated...

[ndindy]

I find the easiest solution to these problems is to own more than 1 pistol. I carried glock on duty, hands down reliable. Never had to work on them, they just worked. Thousands of rounds a year, no failures.

I however really like the feel of the 1911, it just doesn't have the capacity I wanted in a duty pistol, and wasn't concealable enough on my body, so it sat on the shelf. And the 45. acp didn't have the punch I liked in a hunting round, so it stayed on the shelf when the .44mag went hunting. For me personally, it didn't have a niche to fit.

But I've ordered a 460 rowland conversion for it, unless things go wrong it's going to be my new hunting pistol and the .44 will stay at home more often than not. I'm all excited about the prospect because I really like the pistol and have finally found a reason to carry it.

I do real estate now and more than once have to explain why some older houses sell for more than new. Old doesn't mean bad, old just means old.

 

[CajunBass]

Who said it was?

 

[Oyeboten]

I think the human form is antiquated...it's been around a few million years more or less, with only some very very slight upgrades, and was never very reliable to begin with...versatile, yes, adaptable to many things, while lacking entirely ever being very good at anything, compared to Birds, Aquatic Mammals, Fish, Insects, etc.

Lol...


1911 wise, I fired many many thousands of rounds, all sorts of rounds, through my 1914 Commercial, with zero malfunctions...feeds anything I ever put to it, always a joy.

People who have problems with so-called 1911s, I notice it is always some wannabe off make or newer version, never the 'real' thing.

Too bad the term 1911 ends up being applied to variations of copies of the design...but, then, what would one call them otherwise? I dunno...

 

[rcmodel]

I don't care what the Glock fan-boys say.
A 1911 makes a way better club then a Glock when you run out of ammo in your foxhole.

rc

 

[Orlando]

I guess I am one of the lucky ones. I have owned cheap and expensive 1911's and never really had any problems
The only down fall of the 1911 that I can think of is the mag capacity
Why do I love the 1911, because they arent butt ugly like the Glock
My daily carry and never a hicup or FTF, antiquated? Hardly

 

[Bullnettles]

Wow, all over the board, but thank you for keeping it reasonable. From what I gather, it's mainly the ammo capacity and some say reliablity. I appreciate your inputs and will go on loving my Glock and 1911 both, but with a better understanding of people's thoughts on them. Thanks again for the input.

 

[surjimmy]

Everyone has different tastes, that is why there is sooooo many different kinds. If you want to shoot a Glock, then shoot one same for S&W, Taurus and 1911's. However don't try to tell me 1911's are outdated. 100 years later every gun company there is are now or trying to produce the 1911, besides 100's of 1,000's of dead Commies can't be wrong.

 

[IlikeSA]

Its old, but I wouldn't say antiquated. It does the job I want it to do. Unlike Glock, Sig, Smith and Wesson, etc, when I look at my 1911, I say..."This is mine, it DOESN'T look like any of the others." I would never get my 1911 confused for another persons, as there isn't one like mine. I can customize it with a plethora of parts, although I only added night sights to it. It works fine as is.
Put your Glock, Sig, S&W, etc, down among others like it and then try to find it after people mix them up. Try to make your pistol yours...and still...there are others like it.

 

[Chainsaw2]

I've carried a 1911 since I bought my first one back in 1974. Never a FTF, and while not all of them were accurate, most would group to 4" or less at 25 yds, and that is good enough.

jim

 

[bluetopper]

Glocks and polymers in general have their niche in the market but they just don't trip my trigger. I've been through and outgrwn the polymer/hi-cap stage in my life and I just didn't feel any "pride of ownership" with them

A nice Glock or a nice 1911.....which one would you have pride about passing on to your kids or grandkids?

 

[Bullnettles]

Both will be passed down, one for shooting on a regular basis, the other for carrying. Carrying a G20 is NOT my favorite, but it works well in one of my jackets if I have a pistol of equal heft on the other side. Anyone put a 1911 through a test like that one guy did with a Glock? Was watching Band of Brothers (THANK YOU VETS!!!!!!) and those 1911 didn't seem to stay very clean from the looks of it. Threadjack for myself: Winters had no rifle after the initial jump, I thought officers were issued a sidearm?

 

[gwnorth]

I think the capacity is a non-issue for many folks if they want a .45acp pistol. I would love to find a hi-cap double stack .45acp handgun that I truly felt comfortable holding and shooting, But they are all too thick and fat in the grip for my hands - FNP, Glock 21, S&W M&P - you name it and I've probably tried it (owned an FNP 45 for a year or so to really give it a workout).

But, a single stack, 1911, fits just fine in my hand. And I really don't feel panicky that I "only" have 7 or 8 rounds to work with (if I did, guess I'd freak at the thought of carrying one of my revolvers). To be blunt, even my double stack 9mm's (SIG P226 and CZ P-01), both of which I do truly like, do not fit quite as well in my hand as a 1911. They are functional for me, but they sure feel fat and on the verge of being unwieldy compared to a 1911's grip.

The two pistols which I find by far the most comfortable, accurate and controllable to shoot are my 1911's and my SIG P232, all single stack grips. And I'll take control and accuracy over capacity any day of the week.


I have a pair of stainless Colts (MK IV enhanced gov't and a 2009 Combat Commander) and I'll be keeping them with me for the long haul.

 

[Oyeboten]

Excellent design, engineering, quality execution with quality Materials...is what is it, 'Excellence'.

The S&W K-Frame has changed not very much in 111 years, and with no embarassment or apologies.

Good designs and good workmanship are timeless, and have no apologies to make.


'Antiquated' is a term usually denoting merely a superficial difference from a present fashion, exhaggerated by salesman or advertisers to push the new offering.


If I lived in a rural area with bad Roads and gullies and Brooks to ford, I'd have a Horse, or, maybe plain Jane, bone stock 'T-Model' Ford roadster or phaeton, and maybe I'd nice enough to help push or pull the 'escalades' and 'landcruisers' and 'jeeps' out of a ditch now and then just to be neighborly.

 

[gwnorth]

I guess I'd add too, that the word "antiquated", to me, tends to mean more that something is no longer relevant or has been completed supplanted by something far superior. Neither of those two things apply to the 1911, in my mind. Still fully relevant as a defensive pistol, and while there have been incremental advances in handgun technology, there hasn't been any huge leaps in over a hundred years.

 

[tipoc]

From Webster's dictionary...

1.

Main Entry: an·ti·quat·ed
Function: adjective
Date: 1601

1 : obsolete <an antiquated calendar>
2 : outmoded or discredited by reason of age : being out of style or fashion <antiquated methods of farming>
3 : advanced in age
synonyms see old

Well the 1st definition doesn't apply the 1911 is far from "obsolete"*.

Let's look at the second. Is the 1911 "outmoded"?

Main Entry: out·mod·ed
Pronunciation: \-ˈmō-dəd\
Function: adjective
Date: 1903

1 : not being in style
2 : no longer acceptable, current, or usable <outmoded customs>

Doesn't look like it. It's still very much in style. Very current, acceptable and usable.

So the second part of the definition does not apply.

What about the third? Yep it is an "advanced in age design" So is a Mauser action on a rifle. A levergun. All double action revolvers. When you get it right, you get it right.

*

Main Entry: 1ob·so·lete
Pronunciation: \ˌäb-sə-ˈlēt, ˈäb-sə-ˌ\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin obsoletus, from past participle of obsolescere to grow old, become disused, perhaps from ob- toward + solēre to be accustomed
Date: 1579

1 a : no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b : of a kind or style no longer current : old-fashioned <an obsolete technology>
2 of a plant or animal part : indistinct or imperfect as compared with a corresponding part in related organisms : vestigial

tipoc

 

[BCRider]

Some guns just seem to point and shoot tighter groups with less effort and in a more natural manner for the shooter. For me one of those platforms is the 1911. Something about how they naturally fit correctly into the hand creates tight groups with less effort or tighter groups with the same effort as with my other guns.

And it's not just me. I've personally seen numerous folks that are OK but not great shooters with other guns, Glocks included, instantly produce tighter groups when they shoot a 1911 in whatever caliber they choose. I've been helping out at the local Rent-A-Gun range on Fridays so I've had a chance to see a fair sized sampling of such occurances.

In the end and despite everything else I think this is a big reason why the 1911 is still so popular with a lot of folks. That and there's just something about how a nice single stack fits the hand. Come to think about it I guess both of those things are related and it shows in the performance.

 

[czhen]

1911 Antiquated... is not fair.

As someone pointed a 100 years design almost from the scratch. Gaston Glock, (here the war begin) copy from 2 or 3 other manufacturers, very well done by the way.

Drawbacks for the 1911 design:
Capacity (improved in the next step, designer post morten: BHP)
Reliability (GI specs are reliable; not match accurate though)

Old design I do agree 100%, Antiquated allow me to disagree a little bit.

Czhen
FL

 

[akadave]

As someone pointed a 100 years design almost from the scratch. Gaston Glock, (here the war begin) copy from 2 or 3 other manufacturers, very well done by the way.

Drawbacks for the 1911 design:
Capacity (improved in the next step, designer post morten: BHP)
Reliability (GI specs are reliable; not match accurate though)

Old design I do agree 100%, Antiquated allow me to disagree a little bit.

Czhen
FL

Wrong on the drawbacks. Reliability is not an issue with 1911's today. The drawbacks are weight and capacity. But capacity only if you shoot like a chick.

 

[Oyeboten]

I always liked the weight of an old Colt M1911.

The weight is a positive attribute to me, whether carrying or firing.

The Capacity never once bothered me in any way.

It is already more than a Revolver would traditionally have...and, extra Charged Magazines are very easy to appeal to if needed.


I see no drawback there in those counts far as my own comforts go.

 

[TexasBill]

I'm not a big 1911 fan these days, but, back in the day, I carried an unmodified, out-of-the box Colt Series 70 Government Model and never had a problem with the grip safety or the hammer (all of my handguns still have external hammers). Capacity? It carried more than the wheelguns that were typical LEO sidearms back then and I had two spare magazines. If I ever buy another 1911, it will also be a Colt.

As another poster mentioned, the S&W Model 10 has been around for over a hundred years. Yes, it's disappeared from most duty holsters but it's still one of the best home-defense handguns on the market.

Antiquated? Well, the Mona Lisa is more than 500 years old but it's still a masterpiece that attracts many thousands of viewers each year. I think the M1911 is like the Mona Lisa; a timeless masterpiece created by a genius.

 

[dom1104]

Wrong on the drawbacks. Reliability is not an issue with 1911's today. The drawbacks are weight and capacity. But capacity only if you shoot like a chick.

Anyone who says 1911s dont have reliability problems today, doesnt go to many action pistol matches.

 

[3:00hold]

The original as-issued 1911 is antiquated. I don't think the modern factory custom 'combat' 1911s are antiquated unless you consider anything made from metal antiquated.

You can't disregard the single greatest feature of the 1911, which is the trigger.

 

[BlayGlock]

Good designs and good workmanship are timeless, and have no apologies to make

Amen.

For a duty gun I would take a Glock as well. I would prefer the capacity if I were going into harms way everyday. However, Im a mild mannered chemcial engineer, so I carry a 1911.

 

[BlayGlock]

If you like to be your own armorer then get a Glock.
They are the ultimate in user-friendly-do-it-yourself pistols.

Well you are right about that easy g, but what Larry Vickers was saying is that the 1911 is more maintenance intensive and requires you to learn a little about the platform and how to troubleshoot minor problems if they arise. A glock is very easy to work on, but a 1911 is not that hard.

 

[G27RR]

If you really want the capacity, you can go with something like the 2011s STI makes, which give you 1911-like performance and manual of arms in a double-stack capacity format.