1911 Disconnector issue

[ruffseas]

Long story short. Have a decent series 80 Colt 1911. Have been refining the trigger pull. Up to date it has always been variable. Any where from 6# to 5# pull any given squeeze. If I cock it manually the pull is fairly consistent 5.50# to 6 ish. If I slingshot the slide, the ratio remains the same, but the pounds pull jumps into the 6# to 7# range.

The troubleshooting road led me to the disconnector, so I dropped in a new Nowlin disconnector. BINGO! Dead nuts on 5# regardless of manual cocking, or sling shot. Passed all checks until I dropped the slide from the stop. Hammer follow. Gerrrr. Dropped the old disconnector back in. No hammer follow. Same old variable pull...

Increased sear-spring pressure on the Nowlin disconnector to no avail.

What do you think??

Thanks,
Ruff

 

[HisSoldier]

Interesting. Try http://forums.1911forum.com/index.php, "Gunsmithing and troubleshooting". Some very smart guys hang out in there.

 

[Oro]

If I slingshot the slide

I it sounds like you've done enough of this to damage both the disconnector and sear. Maybe the hammer hooks, too.

Replace the sear, too, and stop "slingshotting" the slide. That is a big no-no with a 1911, tuned or not.

 

[ruffseas]

Disconnector

Hello Oro,

Sling-shotting the slide or dropping it from slide stop is standard operating procedure after making changes to the internals or even doing a detail frame strip. That is how I discovered the problem. Also how I replicated it. I do not drop the slide from stop nor sling-shot for fun. Only proper after maintenace checks.

Thanks,
Ruff

 

[ruffseas]

Disconnector

Thanks HisSoldier,

Checkin out 1911 how to's n faqs now. Same problem there as here, SO much info. I try searches but only find things close to the issue but not the issue. The answer has probably been written a dozen times, I just am not searching right.

Ruff

 

[Quack]

how much take-up (pre-travel) do you have with the new disconnector?
it might be a little thicker than the old part you are taking out, causing the trigger to bounce and trip the sear.

 

[HisSoldier]

Checkin out 1911 how to's n faqs now. Same problem there as here, SO much info. I try searches but only find things close to the issue but not the issue. The answer has probably been written a dozen times, I just am not searching right.

Well, your problem is unusual, I've never heard of it so the search probably won't show it.

Please be bold enough to just explain the problem in a new thread and I'm sure you'll get some gray headed 'smiths analyzing it. I'll be watching.

 

[John Parker]

I do remember reading in the Knuehausen books that the 1911 should always have the trigger depressed when manipulating the slide to prevent damage to the sear. Could it be bad?

 

[ruffseas]

pretravel

Hey Quack,

About 1/8 inch for both the old and new disco

 

[Quack]

hmmm...the nowlins dis-connector might be a little short.

try this:
pull the trigger and hold it.
hand cycle the slide
slowly release the trigger
do you hear/feel the trigger reset (click)?

 

[ruffseas]

Disconnector

Hey John P,

The sear looks good under magnification as do the hooks. Have had several people say you should squeeze the trigger when manipulating the slide. Will add that to the routine just to be safe.

 

[ruffseas]

Ok. Was shooting at the range today (old disco) practicing reset shooting so I know what you are looking for. Just re-assembled with the Nowlin disco and it does reset.

Hmmm.... For expediency of re-assembly I left out the (its a series 80) two firing pin safety parts... Did the reset check, then thought what the heck while its back together I should perform the safety checks. Popped in a mag of snap caps and cycled the slide. No hammer follow. Sling shot it. No follow, dropped it from stop, no follow. Popped out the mag and (cringe, absolutely hate this part of the safety check) dropped the slide from stop. NO hammer follow. GAAAHHH! Some how the firing pin safety bits are effecting the relationship of the rest of the firing assembly. I absolutely refuse to modify a firearms safety mechanisms so this will have to be figured out. But we are one step closer!

Thanks Quack.

Ruff

 

[Quack]

did you have the Series 80 parts installed in the proper orientation?

edit: i guess it was correct since you went to the range today

 

[Quack]

 

[ruffseas]

I left them out (for expediency) as they had no bearing on the reset check and miraculously the hammer follow ceased.

Since I was at the range today, I had to have the old disconnector in to be able to shoot. I detail stripped the frame to drop in the Nowlin disco so I could do the reset check you requested. Then proceeded to safety checks and everything worked. Well except the firing pin of course. Also note that since I short cut the assembly I also dropped in an old worn out sear-pin cause it was layin near the new one. Leaning toward sear-pin/disco relationship.

 

[ruffseas]

Disconnector

Hey Guys,

Figured it out. The problem was a very tiny burr inside the disconnector channel of the sear.

Since the old disco was worn to it, it worked. The new one would not.

I am surprised because neither the burr inside the sear nor the score it made on the disconnector were visible to the eye. Found the problem with a magnifying glass studying the disco.

Ruff

 

[redactor]

Hey John P,

The sear looks good under magnification as do the hooks. Have had several people say you should squeeze the trigger when manipulating the slide. Will add that to the routine just to be safe.

Regardless of what you hear from people on the internet, don't do this. Whatever little wear you might save on your trigger-job will be of little concern when you get slightly off in your timing during a reload and blast a hole in the floor. It's not a good idea, and certainly isn't "safe," though any second now we'll have a hundred people say they do it all the time, and have never had an incident.

 

[Quack]

good to hear ruff. i was about to post check the discon for burrs.

 

[John Parker]

Regardless of what you hear from people on the internet, don't do this. Whatever little wear you might save on your trigger-job will be of little concern when you get slightly off in your timing during a reload and blast a hole in the floor. It's not a good idea, and certainly isn't "safe," though any second now we'll have a hundred people say they do it all the time, and have never had an incident.

In all honesty, I've been somewhat uncomfortable about passing this on. Thanks for bringing that up.

 

[Jim K]

Most folks don't understand why dropping the slide causes the hammer to fall, so here is the scoop. With the finger off the trigger, the slide goes forward, slamming to a stop when the barrel foot rides up on the slide stop pin. That moves the whole gun forward. But the 1911, unlike guns with a pivoted trigger, has a free floating trigger with only a light spring. When the frame moves forward, the trigger, obeying Mr Newton, tries to remain where it is, so it moves back in relation to the frame, hitting the sear and releasing the hammer. As the hammer falls, the sear spring reasserts itself and the sear engages the half cock notch (or shelf on later guns) and is stopped from firing the gun.

The problem can be solved by using a lighter trigger, providing more sear engagement, cutting a steeper angle in the hammer notch, increasing trigger/sear spring tension, or by holding the trigger back when dropping the slide. The latter is often taught to target shooters, but goes against the grain for most shooters who have been indoctrinated not to touch the trigger until ready to fire.

Jim

 

[ruffseas]

Don't squeeze when manipulating the slide.

Jim, John and Redactor.

It seems the weight goes with you gents. Squeezin the trigger anytime its not pointed down range gives me the willies. Snap caps do too but getting used to them. I have to agree that not blowin a hole in the floor or my dog who is always around my feet is a good thing and trigger jobs are relatively cheep. Now that you put it this way I agree whole heartedly because muscle memory is hard to break and fiddling with these things, I do a whole lot more slide manipulatin and fussin than actual range time. Squeezing the trigger while manipulating the slide really caused me some stress.

Live, read and learn. I would much rather learn from your years of experience than a smoky, ear ringing accidental discharge.

Jim, thanks for the description of causes of hammer follow. It is very clear and helps me visualize how the groups react under action. Also adjustments I can make to refine the tuning.

Ruff