1st post and car stolen at gun point

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If the car had not been running he may have shot him And taken the keys off the body.
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It's Denver, not Detroit. The crook was waiting for an easy target. He asked about a kid, and looked and asked again when he didn't believe the answer. The gun came out to threaten the OP when the theif realized the he wasn't giving up so easily, but he issued a verbal threat rather than pulling the trigger. Sounds to me like he didn't want blood on his hands.

We have our problems here, but people being killed in car jackings is very rare. Most homicides are gang-on-gang or very personal ones that happen in the suburbs. Armed robberies and the like that result in a dead victim are few and far between.

I'm about 35 miles from the city, but used to spend a fair amount of time downtown in the wee hours. I never feared for my safety.

I very seriously doubt there are any statistics that Show a running car has anything to do with someone pulling a gun on you.
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Probably not, but there are for unattended running cars being stolen. Denver will even issue tickets for "puffing"
 
ForumSurfer said:
Leaving the care wide open to be stolen in order to save your life seems to be along the same line of thinking as leaving your house unlocked all day so you don't get robbed on your way .
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FWIW my dad who often parks at remote trailheads to go jogging usually leaves the doors unlocked and windows down so a thief dosen't have to break a window just to discover that there is nothing to steal.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
Gentlemen, I certainly hope and pray that none of you or a loved one become a victim of a crime and end up being judged as contributing to the crime as a result of something as innocuous as leaving your car running 10 feet away from you, wearing the wrong color on the wrong side of town or wearing a sun-dress to the supermarket.

Good luck!
 
YOU DID NOTHING WRONG! You are alive and well. I am sure you have insurance so let them do their job and try to move on from this. As far as a learning experience, there are many things that can be learned from an experience like this. But always remember: Bad Guy did wrong, YOU DID NOTHING WRONG!
Mike
 
You have no more holes in you than before it happend, count your stars and learn from the incident. Cars can be replaced, a life cant.

Maybe youll get lucky and get a better car out of the deal.
 
Gentlemen, I certainly hope and pray that none of you or a loved one become a victim of a crime and end up being judged as contributing to the crime as a result of something as innocuous as leaving your car running 10 feet away from you, wearing the wrong color on the wrong side of town or wearing a sun-dress to the supermarket.

Good luck!
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No one is judging anyone. I personally am always open to suggestion. That is why I come here, to hear others' opinions. If I knew I was right all the time there would be no reason to read the boards.

I'm glad the guy is ok.

He's alive so he did pretty good.

That doesn't change my opinion that leaving a car running and unattended is a bad idea. I never do it and see no reason to do it. I definitely don't see a reason to do it if there is a sidewalk that people frequent or places for where there are blind spots in your vision or places for someone to hide...nice neighborhood or not. That doesn't make me paranoid, it just doesn't seem like a good idea to do that. Does it really take that much longer to shut the car off and take the keys with you? I had a good friend experience something similar with his work vehicle in a gated apartment complex. Sometimes bad things happen in good places so I see no reason to act differently because of a false sense of perceived safety. I don't get out of arms length from my vehicle while it is running and I don't walk away from my property while it is unlocked.
 
From what I am reading, I think that the guy was in the neighborhood for bad bussiness (possibly something that didn't happen), but not to jack a car- he was looking to get out quickly, and you were a target of opportunity.

Car running was a nice bonus for him, but I am sure he would have just demanded you throw the keys at gunpoint.

Checking for a kid is interesting- he was ready to jack the car, but wanted to make sure it wasn't kidnapping.

I suspect he ran the car to a get home point, and likely carried out anything easy and profitable, and dumpped the car.
 
jmbalt said:
I don't know what I could have done different.
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a) don't check your mail at 11pm

b) have your phone with you

c) don't leave the car running

d) don't leave keys in the car

e) don't leave the door to the car open

f) don't have zero awareness of your surroundings

g) don't approach criminals who might be armed

h) don't be unarmed

i) don't harbour the illusion that you live in a safe area

You could have done a lot of things differently. You were lucky.
 
It's unlikely that you leaving the car running had any meaningful impact on the bad guy's decision to carjack you. You were probably targeted because you were nearby what he knew to be your car (likely because he observed you getting out of it) and he didn't have the time/skill/motivation to hotwire an unattended vehicle. The fact that the car was already running was just a bonus, had it not been it would've been a simple matter of taking the keys.

Either way, you got out alive and without any injury, so it could've gone worse.
 
1. Turn the car off.
2. Put the keys in one pocket and your pocket pistol in the other.
3. Keep your hand near the pistol as you get out.
4. Once out of the car, reach in your pocket and grip your pistol. Lock the car with the other hand.
5. Watch the shadows as you go about your business.

Some people just steal cars while others steal cars and shoot witnesses.
 
My take was this was more of a "pro" than the normal junkie. Mask, no kidnapping and you were out of the car (i.e. not carjacked, a fed offense) and not shot. He watched who did what, knew patterns, and hit people that he could within 30 seconds and be gone.

Don't know specifics of the area layout and lighting. Might talk to the manager about lighting and hiding places to be reduced.

Big lesson is don't under estimate the opposition. Not saying OP did, just saying a lot of scenarios assume a "lower" skilled BG.
 
Respectfully, I pose the following hypothetical question: Let us say you did have a firearm in your possession, how would the outcome possibly have changed?
 
jmbalt said:
BBQLS1:
True... but he was there with the intent of getting a car. I don't know that if I had locked my car and taken the keys would have made much of a difference.
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Now I live in a "safe" part of town (suburbs of north Thornton for those in the Denver area) and have always felt safe and left my car running almost every time I've checked my mail.
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Assuming you live in a safe part of town doesn't mean you won't be a victim.
 
DammitBoy said:
a) don't check your mail at 11pm

b) have your phone with you

c) don't leave the car running

d) don't leave keys in the car

e) don't leave the door to the car open

f) don't have zero awareness of your surroundings

g) don't approach criminals who might be armed

h) don't be unarmed

i) don't harbour the illusion that you live in a safe area

You could have done a lot of things differently. You were lucky.
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Excellent post. BTW, I used to live on the other side of the state. I still hunt near there. :)
 
I know it's hard to keep alert and aware of your surroundings doing daily routine activities day after day, week after week, etc., but you have to try.

He who has the element of surprise always has a tremendous advantage.
 
I always lock my truck when I get out. It is a habit. Also I never leave it running.
OP, you should start this practice. Also start carrying if you can.
Semper Fi
 
I'm still making payments on my Impala. The dealership can remote-kill the engine so I always have my cell phone in my pocket and their number is in my directory. ;)
 
Police Response?

How excited were the police over this? Did they come running code or simply send a "report taker"?

Did this make the papers?
 
Just recently an employee’s car was stolen from the mechanics shop just up the street from where I work. While making deliveries another employee saw the car parked at a Checker Auto Parts not 2 miles from where the car was stolen. He pulled over and called 911. As he sat in the parking lot he watched them strip the car and bring the parts in to sell.

The cop who arrested them and took the report said it’s extremely common for car thieves to strip the car within two miles of the place they stole it from. Not much help in a situation like this of course; I just thought that was interesting.

Glad you’re OK and because I’m an overprotective father, I’m glad he asked about kids.
 
Sorry haven't been back in a few days. Lots of stuff to take care of. Thanks to all of you for your input. Many lessons learned. But The only thing that I think would have changed the situation would've been not to stop for mail that night. Like I said in the OP I was paying attention when I pulled up, had he been visible before I stopped I wouldn't have. I tend to agree with the people who say this was more of a "pro" type situation. He was there to get a car. I agree I shouldn't have left the car running but It was just him and I out there so I wouldn't have put it past him to "ask" for the keys.

I only made mention of my pocket knife to demonstrate how unarmed, or poorly armed I was.

The police were there about 5 minutes after my call to them. Pulled up slow with all of their lights off, headlights, everything. 2 cars at first then 2 more showed up. They said this doesn't really happen in this part of town.

On My previous car I moved the clutch switch to a secret location, never thought about it on this car. May have helped when he stalled it since he wouldn't have been able to re-start it without finding the switch or pushing the car. The next car is getting the same treatment. Easy and effective.

I am definitely looking into getting a concealed carry permit, don't know if it would've helped. A question on legality though. Could I have drawn on him before he drew on me? Does Colorado allow use or potential use of deadly force in a preemptive fashion? Or to protect property?

Oh and the car has not been recovered. I don't really expect it to be at this point. It was insured and the Insurance company will give me replacement cost as apposed to book value when and if it comes to that.

Again thanks for all of your input.
 
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If he was armed, how should the OP have proceeded?

My inclination would be that OP should have made moves to at least get a hand on his gun one the "Interview" stage began, accompanied with stern verbal warnings to the BG, telling him to back away from the car and to not come any closer. Begin backing away from the thief with the intent of creating space. Move in the direction of cover or at least concealment.

You get inside the thief's loop and make him start reacting to you. If he continues to approach the car, I'm not sure what the laws are regarding defense of property in CO. If he continues to come closer to you and you reasonably are in fear for your life or feel you're in danger of imminent severe harm, out comes the gun.
 
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