2 handguns. 98 rounds fired. 13 people dead. All in 1 minute? I don't believe it!

[hso]

I'm just curious, if they are here legally but don't have citizenship yet, are they allowed to carry at all....open or otherwise? If not, then it wouldn't have mattered.

In NY? Good question. I assume that a carry permit from a may issue state like NY is going to be difficult for foreigners with a "green card". Also, consider that many foreigners come from cultures where firearms ownership, much less carry, isn't part of their lives.

 

[Grey_Mana]

On the other hand,
If they say you need to be able to hit the target 90 times in 90 seconds, maybe a subconcious bar is set that will discourage the next young loser. "I can totally do it on PSP3, but real life is bogus, man. I think I'll just sit here and stew in my bitterness, rather than acting on my freudian fantasies."

 

[gym]

Too much xbox for that guy

 

[Leanwolf]

STRINGS - "Ok, I just tried a lil' test...

...Took me @ 40 seconds to go through 90 pulls..."

You weren't stoked full of adrenalin and hate and weren't trying to kill moving, frightened people, in different locations of a building, were you??

There's quite a difference.

L.W.

 

[TRGRHPY]

You weren't stoked full of adrenalin and hate and weren't trying to kill moving, frightened people, in different locations of a building, were you??

But that's just it, out of 98 rounds he didn't hit that many times, so he wasn't taking aimed shots IMO.
Here is something to compare with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_JuF23qazI

He has fired 90 rounds in 40 seconds. His seventh magazine is finished in 53 seconds...105 rounds, and that last mag he had a failure of some sort. Those are aimed shots. He had 98 rounds in 49 seconds, with a failure drill thrown in. So 49 seconds leaves another 40 seconds....I think it could be done.

 

[Arbor]

Gun control advocates said if a man who complained about not getting enough in unemployment benefits could afford enough ammunition to repeatedly practice shooting and go into his killing zone with a satchel of bullets around his neck, new ways are needed to stem gun violence, including raising the price of ammunition.

We just need to keep those poor people disarmed, then we'll be safe..

 

[Phatty]

But that's just it, out of 98 rounds he didn't hit that many times

I'm just wondering where you got that information. I haven't seen any info released so far regarding the percentage of shots fired that hit people.

 

[Leanwolf]

HSO - "In NY? Good question. I assume that a carry permit from a may issue state like NY is going to be difficult for foreigners with a "green card."

I have not heard yet as the media are as usual, confused and inarticulate but did the murderer have a permit to carry concealed???

Or did he have a permit to own/possess a handgun in New York??

I know that in New York one can not own or possess a handgun without a N.Y. own/possess permit.

It requires a separate "permit" to carry a concealed firearm.

Anyone have any documentation on whether the murderer had a CCW... or just a N.Y. permit to own/possess??????

L.W.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Well, I may be totally off coming out of left field. But there used to be a laser game called Photon and later Laser Storm long ago. Just try to hunt humans on the opposite team in a battle space with a variety of obsacles.

If memory serves I recall target engagement about... .7 to acquire, validate enemy team color on his helmet and .3 to .5 seconds to fire. Sometimes a number of rounds (Bursts of energy traced by computer and sensors) fired to bring down target who might be seeking cover. A kill like that would take... 2 seconds.

If that target had acquired me visually first I lose because reaction time, reflex and thinking is too slow to do anything about it.

Thinking about a room full of unarmed people in mass chaos seeking escape or whatever is something beyond me. However... I would imagine the shooter may have for a very short time be in a extremly accelerated mental/physical speed and see time in slow motion and suppose to the attacker plenty of time to go through the shootings.

At some point the sands run out of the time hourglass to zero and attacker is out of time. Someone is going to show up and engage that attacker.

I would like to think that attacker is tunnel vision and too intent on too many targets to notice anything when the Police or someone else does acquire and open fire on the attacker.

Taking things one step further. Attacker commits suicide. That solves alot of future media focus and much wasted resources trying, judging, convicting, sentencing, imprsioning and otherwise feeding said attacker for a long time after the crime.

Mods feel free to delete this. I really get nausaeted when I think about actually having to consider shooting fish in a barrel with a room ful of people trying to become US Citizens.... there has to have been something totally mentally WRONG or BROKEN when the attacker did it.

 

[jbrown50]

Letter mailed Friday
Wong's letter was mailed to News 10 Now, in Syracuse, and postmarked Friday, the day Vietnamese immigrant Jiverly Wong stormed into the American Civic Association and went on a rampage before killing himself.

"I am Jiverly Wong Shooting the people," the letter begins.

The letter was dated March 18, more than two weeks before the shooting. It included photos of Wong smiling with two guns, a gun permit and his driver's license. The envelope carried three stamps: two Purple Hearts and a Liberty Bell.

Police speculated Wong, who was ethnically Chinese but was from Vietnam, was angry over losing a job and frustrated about his poor English skills

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20090407/NEWS/904070330&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/...20090407&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=904070330&Ref=V1


STATE OF NEW YORK
LICENSE TO CARRY PISTOL IS HEREBY GRANTED

What I personally find interesting is what the nationality block says:
AMERICAN

 

[Ned Kelly]

That is hard to believe he unleashed that much firepower and that accurately in such a short time.

What is getting conflicting is that the liberal media, politicians and Obama's own cabinet are going all out but I haven't heard anything specifically from Obama.

(I am no fan of the guy whatsoever)

I wonder if he isn't so busy in other areas that is doesn't realize his cronies are getting ready to cause some serious unrest.

I read one article where he has sent instructions to force Hillary to back down over comments about gun control she made involving the violence in Mexico........and ..... The attorney general making some comments about gun control.

I think Obama is grasping that gun control is definitely not something he needs to bring up right now. Or at least let hopes this is the case.

 

[KBintheSLC]

easily doable with 30 round mags.

Good fodder for the anti's.

I think Obama is grasping that gun control is definitely not something he needs to bring up right now.

Right now?... If he is smart, he will avoid it like the plague for the duration of his presidency... not just right now.

...

 

[wellregul8dmilitiamember]

Some other things...

I thought I read somewhere that a laser sight was found at the scene, along with full clips.

Wasn't the guy a crack addict? (no toxicology report out yet) At the least, he was SERIOUSLY disturbed.

I'd imagine that the scene in there was 'living hell'. For the victims, this would have been the last thing to be expected, and with no where to run.

Figuring 7-8 shots per victim, 98 shots in 1-2 minutes sounds feasible. But in this type of situation, time is the last thing that matters, or is being kept tracked.

All I can think of, is the shooting at the nursing home in NC, where one shot stopped the rampage....

 

[glk23]

I don't understand all the argument over the timeline. The police probably got the "little over a minute" from one of the people NOT killed, maybe even the women they had on the phone.

A person under those conditions would be a HORRIBLE judge of time. In all likelihood, the "little over a minute" would probably be closer to 2-4 minutes. I think everyone wold agree that 98 rounds in that timeframe would not be difficult.

 

[TRGRHPY]

In all likelihood, the "little over a minute" would probably be closer to 2-4 minutes. I think everyone wold agree that 98 rounds in that timeframe would not be difficult.

Except that people in those types of situations experience time differently than that. 5 seconds=5 minutes. That's why you hear "but it seemed like it took so much longer" Or "it seemed like it took the paramedics/fire 15 minutes to arrive".

Good point about using the survivors to pin down a time frame. Even with a skewed sense of time, there are some clues that can be gained from them. Someone who saw a clock, was on a cell phone call, somone on a laptop, etc.

Not to mention that they can tell the time from when the call comes in til the time that the first officer calls in that he arrived.

 

[Erik]

Note: In this day and age time lines are easily enough established.

The call comes in
The call goes out
The responders call out on scene

Those particular points on the time line, at least, are typically known.

I have yet to hear an account which would lead me to believe that the police where anything but timely in arriving on scene.

The exact details will emerge- the event will be analyzed and disseminated through the community. The timeliness of the arrival, regardless of what it turns out to be exactly, will not be one of the points of criticism.

 

[Poor East Texan]

Hoovers beyond belief that it happened. Prayers to the victims.

However spray and pray seems to be how the A hole shot.

 

[Ned Kelly]

I think trying to put a time down on something like this down to seconds is pretty difficult.

How many watches, cell phones and police dispatcher clocks are synchronized perfectly.

It's Scientifically impossible to determine the amount of time it took to that accuracy based on the inaccuracy of the measuring devices differing settings. In this case clocks and watches.

 

[Guns and more]

It is one thing to burn off rounds at the range, but to fire 98 rounds AIMED fire, while hunting for targets and looking for threats to yourself... I agree with the people saying it isn't all that possible.

It was shown that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't possibly have gotten off three shots from a faulty rifle at the Dallas School Book Depository in the time alloted also. And the Zabruder film was an accurate count of the time line. But the Warren Commission said he did. (then ran down 6 flights of stairs and bought a Coke from the machine in 90 sec. without breaking a sweat.)
So...............there you go.

 

[TRGRHPY]

How many watches, cell phones and police dispatcher clocks are synchronized perfectly.

It's Scientifically impossible to determine the amount of time it took to that accuracy based on the inaccuracy of the measuring devices differing settings. In this case clocks and watches.

How do you think they were able to determine the timeline for the Columbine shooting? About a month ago during a criminal law class, the lead detective in the investigation regarding the officer who was accused of accidentally shooting one of the students, came to our class and showed us the evidence and timeline that the investigators were able to put together. They can and do, do exactly what I mentioned. when the pieces are all put together, the picture is very clear. They had officer statements, dispatch calls, 911 calls, witness statements, cell phone logs, etc., and were able to determine what happened exactly when. It was impressive, to say the least.

 

[Phatty]

I have yet to hear an account which would lead me to believe that the police where anything but timely in arriving on scene.

The police were timely once they got dispatched. However, it supposedly took the 911 operator several minutes to dispatch the police because there was difficulty understanding the lady that called because she spoke poor english.

 

[Wicked Ajax]

"Ballistics reports showed Jiverly Wong fired 87 times from a 9mm Beretta and 11 times from a .45-caliber handgun. If he bought the ammunition online, he could have paid as little as $40 for the rounds he fired."

Where do you get prices for ammo like that? Sounds like BS to me.

 

[Wicked Ajax]

"Ballistics reports showed Jiverly Wong fired 87 times from a 9mm Beretta and 11 times from a .45-caliber handgun. If he bought the ammunition online, he could have paid as little as $40 for the rounds he fired."

Where do you find ammo prices like that, especially today? Sounds like BS to me.

 

[-v-]

Other thing to consider, investigators said that the room was very small and hard for them to maneuver in to do their investigation. If you're standing in a doorway and firing into a large walk-in closet full of people, there's not much aiming thats needed to rattle off a full mag or two and get lots of hits. Pritty much one of those shooting fish in a barrel things, I think.

 

[RoadkingLarry]

Bottom line - When seconds count the police are minutes (hours?) away.