.22 WMR ? No place in SD?

This topic isn't dead until someone gets a response from the ammo manufacturers to confirm if there are any process changes in the priming or testing of .22 Mag vs .22 LR that can definitively state whether .22 Mag is more reliable than .22 LR.

I'll be emailing CCI today or tomorrow as Aguila hasn't gotten back to me and I doubt they ever will.
 
TTv2 said:
This topic isn't dead until someone gets a response from the ammo manufacturers to confirm if there are any process changes in the priming or testing of .22 Mag vs .22 LR that can definitively state whether .22 Mag is more reliable than .22 LR.

I'll be emailing CCI today or tomorrow as Aguila hasn't gotten back to me and I doubt they ever will.
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I won't be surprised if you get a "form letter" type of answer.

Most companies I know won't publish anything that diminishes their products to the consumer. You have to get that kind of info from an insider or from consumers with a lot of hands on time with the product. In my line of work, people that really bad mouth a product are people within the organization that makes or sells that product. The front given to the public is always kinder, usually with the suggestion to upgrade if the lower priced product isn't meeting the customer's expectations. This would apply to .22 LR bulk pack compared to .22 LR match ammo, as well.
 
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Sad truth is the primer compound and spinning it into place is the same in both. It's the jacketed bullet in .22 mag that costs more.
 
JERRY said:
Sad truth is the primer compound and spinning it into place is the same in both. It's the jacketed bullet in .22 mag that costs more.
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Fully agree on the spinning process, and will agree that the primer compound is likely the same. One theory is if Mr. Primer Paste Pellet Maker is under pressure to go faster with less time to watch what he is creating with high volume bulk ammo versus high grade ammo. Rush the primer process and the pellets could develop air voids. Which would reduce the amount of primer in a pellet that gets spun into a rim.

In my industry, when the machine operator is making low end items at high volume there's a lot of sloppy product being made with QC being pushed to the customer. When the machine operator is making high end products on the same type of machine, time is given to decrease losses on the higher cost materials and QC is done more in house.

I'm going through this right now with two different companies that own the same model of machine that applies adhesives. One company makes low quality products at high volume for regular consumers and the other company makes high end products for expensive auction advertisements. The folks looking to spend $100,000 grand to (sky's the limit) on these auctions want an exceptionally well made advertising piece, and that's exactly what they get off the same model of machine.

Edit to clarify: The adhesive used in these two machines can develop air voids if the operator won't or can't pay proper attention to what they are doing.
 
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There is basically only one way to make a rimfire cartridge, and one kind of priming compound. Higher priced ammo, or higher quality ammo has more to do with the projectile, case material, and packaging. Zero difference in HOW 22mag ammo is produced. Larger case, and jacketed bullet are the only difference.

 
chicharrones said:
I won't be surprised if you get a "form letter" type of answer.

Most companies I know won't publish anything that diminishes their products to the consumer. You have to get that kind of info from an insider or from consumers with a lot of hands on time with the product. In my line of work, people that really bad mouth a product are people within the organization that makes or sells that product. The front given to the public is always kinder, usually with the suggestion to upgrade if the lower priced product isn't meeting the customer's expectations. This would apply to .22 LR bulk pack compared to .22 LR match ammo, as well.
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If I get told that the process between the priming for .22 LR and Mag is the same, no differences, then that answers my question. At that point the reliability is the same unless the cavity in the rim for the priming is larger in volume and allows for more compound to get into it during priming.

But you are correct, they're never going to tell me anything bad about the ammunition, it will always be "held to the highest standards possible, 100% perfection" blah blah blah
 
chicharrones said:
Fully agree on the spinning process, and will agree that the primer compound is likely the same. One theory is if Mr. Primer Paste Pellet Maker is under pressure to go faster with less time to watch what he is creating with high volume bulk ammo versus high grade ammo. Rush the primer process and the pellets could develop air voids. Which would reduce the amount of primer in a pellet that gets spun into a rim.

In my industry, when the machine operator is making low end items at high volume there's a lot of sloppy product being made with QC being pushed to the customer. When the machine operator is making high end products on the same type of machine, time is given to decrease losses on the higher cost materials and QC is done more in house.

I'm going through this right now with two different companies that own the same model of machine that applies adhesives. One company makes low quality products at high volume for regular consumers and the other company makes high end products for expensive auction advertisements. The folks looking to spend $100,000 grand to (sky's the limit) on these auctions want an exceptionally well made advertising piece, and that's exactly what they get off the same model of machine.

Edit to clarify: The adhesive used in these two machines can develop air voids if the operator won't or can't pay proper attention to what they are doing.
Click to expand...
That could happen regardless of what line he's working on and if anything they'd want him to bust out as much .22 Mag or premium .22 LR as possible because it makes more money.
 
IMHO, anyone who thinks that bulk ammo and match ammo are primed exactly the same way, that there isn't money for a manufacturer to save there, needs to go back to school. Every step in the process distinguishes match ammo from bulk. The distinctive smell you get from match ammo is from the different priming compound. It's not the same friggin' compound.

Are there standard primers and match/benchrest primers? Yes.
 
CraigC said:
IMHO, anyone who thinks that bulk ammo and match ammo are primed exactly the same way, that there isn't money for a manufacturer to save there, needs to go back to school. Every step in the process distinguishes match ammo from bulk. The distinctive smell you get from match ammo is from the different priming compound. It's not the same friggin' compound.

Are there standard primers and match/benchrest primers? Yes.
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How do you know the different smell is not from different powder? You seem to be very confident in your assumptions, and if they are facts, please provide a link.
 
TTv2 said:
You do not KNOW for a fact tho. Neither do I, but I see no reason to believe that there's a difference in the priming because if there was, don't you think it would be advertised?
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Yes, I do. Everything about match ammo is better. The cases, the priming, the powder, the consistency in the powder charge, the bullets, even the lube, everything. No need to advertise one particular aspect. You ever have a dud with match ammo? You ever even use any match ammo? No. You had issues with light strikes with ONE .22Mag firearm and on that basis alone, you judge all.

dunning-kruger-effect-b.jpg
 
CraigC said:
Yes, I do. Everything about match ammo is better. The cases, the priming, the powder, the consistency in the powder charge, the bullets, even the lube, everything. No need to advertise one particular aspect. You ever have a dud with match ammo? You ever even use any match ammo? No. You had issues with light strikes with ONE .22Mag firearm and on that basis alone, you judge all.

View attachment 1151361
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Three firearms actually, but now that I have the .22/.410 I'll be keeping an eye on how that performs with .22 Mag light strikes, however my whole focus has been the light strikes in handguns, not rifles.

So Craig, let me ask you this to keep things as apples to apples as possible, do you believe that .22 Magnum is more reliable or higher quality than Lapua or Eley Match .22 LR ammo is or do you think it's about that same?
 
chicharrones said:
All stated from our own personal experience shooting .22WMR from our own guns. Long guns and hand guns.

You’re still stuck in your personal experience with your light striking .22WMR revolver which we all suggested you to send back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement.

I remember specifically that you said that gun fired .22 LR more reliably then .22 WMR. Which made many of us believe that the firing pin wasn’t shaped or positioned correctly to hit the primer well on the two different diameter cartridges.

Did you ever get that problem fixed or are you just letting it affect your perception of .22 WMR forever?
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I have not encountered any problems with either CCI standard .22lr, nor Winchester sub-sonic .22WMR, nor CCI Maxi-Mag .22WMR rounds, all appear to be good ammunition, giving 100% reliability, in good firearms (and yes, I have shot bricks of them).
I have heard stories about unreliable rimfire ammunition, but have not struck any in 20 years; there was a shocking batch by one company of .22WMR about that time!! Numerous failure to extract problems (too much powder causing cases to split and expand).
 
TTv2 said:
Three firearms actually, but now that I have the .22/.410 I'll be keeping an eye on how that performs with .22 Mag light strikes, however my whole focus has been the light strikes in handguns, not rifles.
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Three guns that all fire .22LR well but not .22WMR. Either the batch of ammo you have is bad, or the firing pins in those guns aren’t hitting .22 WMR in the correct position on the rim, or the .22 WMR cylinders are out of spec with the rims spaced to far forward from the firing pin.

I can’t remember if you showed us honest photos of the rims of the struck .22WMR ammo in those guns. What I do remember is that you blew off offers to help diagnose your gun’s problems.

Since I can’t remember seeing you post photos at THR ever, I’ll guess you don’t have the ability to show us the problem.
 
chicharrones said:
Three guns that all fire .22LR well but not .22WMR. Either the batch of ammo you have is bad, or the firing pins in those guns aren’t hitting .22 WMR in the correct position on the rim, or the .22 WMR cylinders are out of spec with the rims spaced to far forward from the firing pin.

I can’t remember if you showed us honest photos of the rims of the struck .22WMR ammo in those guns. What I do remember is that you blew off offers to help diagnose your gun’s problems.

Since I can’t remember seeing you post photos at THR ever, I’ll guess you don’t have the ability to show us the problem.
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I did take pictures of each revolver after firing both cylinders, I just didn't get around to posting them.

They're on my phone and I have quite a few pics, I'll upload them when I get home. In fact. I'll look at them rn to refresh my memory.
 
To answer the OP...Yes, it has a place in SD as does the 22 LR IMHO

The 22 LR is probably equally effective as a 25acp, or 32acp on the intended target.
 
TTv2 said:
I did take pictures of each revolver after firing both cylinders, I just didn't get around to posting them.

They're on my phone and I have quite a few pics, I'll upload them when I get home. In fact. I'll look at them rn to refresh my memory.
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I'm too busy to upload the pics rn, I will do them this weekend.
 
Brubz said:
Is the .22 Magnum round useless for Self Defense? Is it only good for shooting targets at the range and making a lot of noise?
I know some of the guys here use it to shoot
varmint but no place in personal protection?
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"People don't like having extra holes in their body."

- Jeff Quinn, RIP
 
Failure rates with 22 lr and mag are gonna be higher than centerfire and both are lesser in ballistic potential.

Not ideal.

22 mag sure rings steel faster and with more authority than 22lr, and people have successfully used 22lr. So...it'll be better on target than lr
 
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