.223/5.56 for home defense

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2ndunamended

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For my second post here on THR, after my intro, I'm very likely asking an already answered question, if not demonstrating poor etiquette. That said, I did try to do a cursory search but some threads were old so I thought I'd "take a shot...":banghead:

I just purchased a Tavor SAR and I'm eager to learn your thoughts on the best HD ammo for this bullpup. I have a Remington 870 HD and multiple 9mm handguns, so I'm ONLY curious about your recommendations for home defense ammo in .223 or 5.56. I realize answers will run the gamut, but I really appreciate your thoughts.

I currently have Hornady 55 gr. VMAX and ZMAX in my mags.
 
5.56 is fine for HD. Just know what is on the other side of the wall when you engage the perp. That would go for the 870 and the 9mm. Train, practice, and shoot straight.
 
5.56 is fine for HD. Just know what is on the other side of the wall when you engage the perp. That would go for the 870 and the 9mm. Train, practice, and shoot straight.

Thank you DougW- sage advice, and much appreciated.
 
I'm currently researching defensive ammo in 5.56/.223. For years I've purchased, stocked up on, and used m193 for everything. I'm sure it'd do reasonably well in a defensive role, but I think there are probably better options.

I hear good things about hornady 75 gr TAP. Maybe I'll give it a go sometime.
 
I'm currently researching defensive ammo in 5.56/.223. For years I've purchased, stocked up on, and used m193 for everything. I'm sure it'd do reasonably well in a defensive role, but I think there are probably better options.

I hear good things about hornady 75 gr TAP. Maybe I'll give it a go sometime.

Thank you MD7. I've heard the same thing since I started researching this- the 75 gr. TAP comes highly recommended.

Ultimately, I suppose shot placement matters most. But if you have the right ammo and effective shot placement, the outcome is decidedly in your favor.
 
I prefer a good 55gr hollowpoint or softpoint, which is what you are already using, so the VMAX is a good choice IMO. Mine is currently loaded with Federal 55gr JHP, which is comparable.
 
According to many of the "experts" here on this board ... the .223/5.56 is not suitable for deer sized animals(125/200 lbs) ... would the same cartridge be suitable for a man sized animal(125/250lbs) ?

I think so .... I keep mine loaded with 50 or 55 gr VMax ... the shotgun with heavy loaded #4/#2 is also sitting close by ...
 
Half mag topped with 55gr Prvi Partizan soft points and the rest 55 Nato.

M
 
I have moved away from 55gr varmint bullets in favor of 5.56 loaded 75gr bthp. Much of the popularity of the light varmint rounds stems from the claim that they are less likely to overpenetrate intermediate barriers and so minimize the risk of collateral damage/injury/death. The problem for me, lies in the experiences of varmint/predator hunting. Vmax is devastating on small varmints. Have seen 'yotes hit by them run off to die elsewhere. The light construction expands violently, but results in reduced penetration, especially if it hits something like bone before hitting vitals. Heavy hollow points, by comparison, tend towards fragmentation of the jacket surrounding the cavity at the point of upset (yaw), while the base and core continue on, giving excellent follow through penetration.

I've done a lot of gleaning of information in recent years. My takeaway has been this: any round with sufficient damage potential to stop an attacker in his tracks reliably, also unfortunately carries the potential to overpenetrate barriers, and risk damage or injury to others. If it won't go through a wall, it also MAY NOT save you from an attacker.

223/5.56 does have an inherent advantage over heavier rounds though, in that it's combination of relatively high speed and light projectile inherently carry less energy through intermediate barriers, which reduces the risk of collateral damage, compared to heavier, slower rounds with more momentum than energy.
 
I would start with 75 gr TAP.

There's a big difference in how we employ a hunting cartridge and a defensive cartridge. For hunting, I will be taking one shot at an unknown distance. For defensive uses, I will likely be shooting multiple shots at closer range. I don't mind hitting the target repeatedly.
 
All I can say is that its gonna be LOUD

You might be surprised how much noise sofas, stuffed chairs, carpets, drapes, etc. can absorb.

M
 
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Furniture can help attenuate the volume, it won't stop the bullets any more than the walls.

The military uses 77 OTM for CQB - meaning inside buildings, or shipboarding duties. Black Hills sells it. You don't have to practice with it, but a mag or two of that ready to go would be a good choice.

As for the experts saying what is or isn't a good choice for deer, the collective wisdom of the conservation departments nationwide is to allow it's use. MO allows any centerfire cartridge for taking whitetail deer. Consider that we apply a different purpose to hunting ammo - our ethical goal is to hit it with enough force to keep the game from escaping and quickly put it down with the minimum amount of suffering. As long as you are shooting within the 1,000 foot pound of force range of a firearm, it's more a matter of competent shot placement.

That doesn't mean that pistol caliber hunters, bow and crossbow, or even atlatl users are being unethical. The competent hunter choses to propel his weapon at the target when he knows it will effectively and humanely take down the game. And the skilled hunter knows how to get in close enough to do the job - considering the habits and habitat, he often has no choice but to do that.

In my case, I'm using a 10.5" AR pistol to hunt dense brushy valleys as that is where whitetail lay up after leaf fall. There behavior in the rut in late fall and where they congregate isn't the same as year round. Keeping my shots under 80m won't be hard, the cover limits visibility to that or less. 5.56 certainly DOES have more than 1,000 foot pounds out to 80m in from a 10" barrel in this case and can do that job well - without having to lug an 8 pound WWI era battle rifle caliber from the days of yore.

You have to know your ballistics application - not just take slanted comments from self appointed experts, which every forum has in abundance. Just ask, they will be more than happy to tell you the other guy isn't right. ;)

As for the use of 5.56 in a combat weapon - the application works there, too, but for entirely different reasons. We aren't trying to get one stop shots on humans at 500m with 5.56. We are trying to get HITS - to reduce the effectiveness of another human being able to return fire in an effective manner. If that human can no longer respond due to his incapacity, the round has done it's job - even with less than 400 foot pounds of force. Again - shot placement is key, not necessarily immediate exsanguination or nervous system overload. He just needs to think he's out of the fight, and that doesn't take nearly as much power delivered down range. It accomplishes the purpose just as well as body bagging him instantly.

It's the typical male ego pattern that tends to insist on that - the use of power for it's own end, not necessarily in the amounts needed to get the job done. If anything, it's the whole point behind the current fad of .300BO - it carries more power, even tho it has less effective range than 5.56.

Keep in mind if you are expecting to have to use a firearm to defend your home against intruders, that many other things will have to go neglected first to even get to that point. Relying on a firearm as your only recourse and it's use after they get in the door is a very poor plan, best categorized as a last ditch effort. It's common enough to discuss it on firearms forums as the focus is all about the gun, but it's also limited and prone to failure.

There are other things more important to be taken care of first - what gun you use in the extreme and rare case all that fails won't really make a big difference. You will want to have well thought out and rehearsed reactions to the threat more than which bullet you might choose to use.
 
moment you fire off 5.56 indoors in a home defense situation, you and your entire family will probably suffer permanent hearing damage.. not to mention the disorientation as your ear drums rupture will likely put you out of the fight
 
moment you fire off 5.56 indoors in a home defense situation, you and your entire family will probably suffer permanent hearing damage.. not to mention the disorientation as your ear drums rupture will likely put you out of the fight
Where do people come up with this BS?
Ear drums rupture, seriously?
 
moment you fire off 5.56 indoors in a home defense situation, you and your entire family will probably suffer permanent hearing damage.. not to mention the disorientation as your ear drums rupture will likely put you out of the fight

I've done it and my eardrums certainly didn't rupture...

M
 
The Hornady Zmax was specifically designed to stop zombies from invading your home. I think it says so on the box, or at least the artwork suggests that.

My personal preference is a Mossberg 12ga if they breach the door
 
75 or 77g OTM loads. 62-64g bonded loads such as the Gold Dot and Federal Fusion. 50g Barnes TSX load. All the previous have demonstrated excellent terminal performance.
 
moment you fire off 5.56 indoors in a home defense situation, you and your entire family will probably suffer permanent hearing damage.. not to mention the disorientation as your ear drums rupture will likely put you out of the fight
A 16" or longer .223 without a muzzle brake is pretty comparable in terms of peak dBA to an 18" 12-gauge shotgun or a 3.5" 9mm, and nowhere near as loud as a .357 revolver.

http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

Now, a 14.5" or shorter, with a brake, would be a mini-flash-bang indoors, sure. I've shot next to an aggressively braked 14.5" in a match one time, and it was one of the loudest guns I've ever had the displeasure of standing near...and the side blast was tearing up the cardboard "obstacles". Quite impressive for such a small cartridge. But an unbraked .223 in a longish barrel is pretty comparable to a lot of other centerfire HD guns.
 
Subscribed.

Why, the drama alone is worth the price of admission. :uhoh:

Joking aside, I always learn lots in such threads as this re HD.
Barrel length. Hmm. Who'da thought it made much difference?
 
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