223 Rem semi auto rifles?

[Wildbillz]

Hi All
I am looking to buy a new rifle in 223Rem/5.56mm. It should be semi auton and capable of having a mag of atleast 20rnds. I know these ones are avalible.

AR 15
Mini 14
AKs

What else is there?

I am sort of thinking of a mini, but had bad luck with one in the past. I have heard that the new models are better. I don't requier more then paper plate accuracy at 100 yards.

Anyone got any experance with the various AKs in 223? I like the idea but have heard they take a hard to find mag?

What are your thoughts?
Thanks
WB

 

[Husker_Fan]

I've never shot an AK in .223/5.56. Of the other two, I'd take the AR. I prefer them to the mini, and the price difference between a mini and a quality AR has really closed up in the last couple of years.

 

[M1key]

You mean Saigas? Surefire 223 mags for Saigas are easy to find and work great.

If you convert to PG configuration, you have a variety of 30rd mil surp 223 mags that will work (some with minor fitting): Galil, East German Weiger, Bulgarian factory, Surefires, and even Tapco makes ones that work fine.

M

 

[ugaarguy]

Anyone got any experance with the various AKs in 223? I like the idea but have heard they take a hard to find mag?

The Bulgarian so-called "circle ten" magazines (because they're marked with the numeral 10 inside a circle on the mag body) are relatively easy to find, but run about $30 each. I had an AK in 5.56, but traded it. It didn't run much cleaner than my DI AR-15s, it was less accurate, magazines cost 3x as much, and the sights were crude. Some parts interchange with their 7.62x39 brothers, and some don't.

The new Minis are better, but still aren't AR accurate. Ruger has started selling the 20 & 30 round mags to civilians again, but they're still $30 each. Mini owners I know say the factory mags are the only way to go too for reliability. Ruger is also your only source for internal parts.

The AR-15 is a very robust rifle when built properly, and quality mags are cheap (new in wrapper USGI for $10 or less). Parts are inexpensive, and readily available. They're easy to work in the rare case you need fix something. Basically everybody & their brother own AR-15s because they work, they're user friendly, and they're readily customizable.

 

[MachIVshooter]

AR 15
Mini 14
AKs

What else is there?

A lot

AR180
HK93 pattern
SL8
FN SCAR
FN2000
Galil
Beretta RX4
Kel Tec SU-16
Bushmaster M17
ACR

Then there's the stuff all over the world that we can't get here, like the FAMAS, G36, SA80, etc.

 

[BP Hunter]

The newer generation Mini14's are excellent weapons. I have the new one with serial number starting with the 580's or known as the 580 series. It is easy to maintain and MUCH easier to disassemble to clean than the M4. It'll do better than paper plate accuracy at 100 yards. My brother loves borrowing it from me because he enjoys hitting metal gongs at 300 yards with it...with open iron sights. Cdnninvestments is selling them really cheap at about $570'ish.

 

[451 Detonics]

One that has been somewhat ignored it the Benelli MR1. It uses the same proven system as the Benelli M4 shotgun and the same buttstock if you want or need to change from the pistol grip to a conventional stock. Uses the easy to find and cheap AR magazines. Like the shotgun it is easy to break down for cleaning and maintenance. I got to play with one and the ergonomics are excellent. It really makes me consider selling my HK 121M shotgun and buying one of these and an M4 just for the similar feel in the guns as well as somewhat similar controls like the safety.

The retail price shown is much higher than what they can be bought for.

 

[Damon555]

The AR15 is definitely the way to go. Tons of options and accessories.

 

[6x6pinz]

Love my Saiga in 223. With the AR magwell on it finding mags is a breeze. There are several companies making very reliable mags with varying sizes so that is no longer an issue like it was back a few years ago.
My Saiga 223 with AR magwell. Still runs AK mags

 

[W.E.G.]

I have an AK in .223 (ATAS-WASR-3)

It acts just like any other AK.

If you like that style, you'll be reasonably happy with an AK in whatever caliber.

.223 AK magazines can be easily had, but you won't find them on every other table at the gun show.

 

[Cryogaijin]

Of those, I would most like the Su-16. It folds, takes standard ar-15 magazines, and weighs in at 4.5 lbs.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

The AR15 is definitely the way to go. Tons of options and accessories.

For some-one like me who doesn't want "tons of options(?) and accessories" and who doesn't like the AR or AK platforms(yes,I've owned both) only the Mini-14 is left. I would like some-one to offer an alternative to the Mini-14 (as much as I like it). Such as Remington or Browning in a scaled down version of their 7400 or BAR. In the mean time I'll stick with Ruger until something more suitable comes along.

 

[ATLDave]

Well, there's the Sig 556, which is sort of between the AR and AK (AK-like long-recoil piston operating system, AR-ish ergos). After some initial QC issues were ironed out with mine (all on Sig's nickle), it has been very robust and reliable.

 

[kludge]

Kel-Tec SU-16. I haven't had any match ammo through mine but "surplus" and Wolf go ~2"-3" at 100 yards with "iron" sights. XM193 does a little better than Wolf.

 

[JustinJ]

One that has been somewhat ignored it the Benelli MR1. It uses the same proven system as the Benelli M4 shotgun and the same buttstock if you want or need to change from the pistol grip to a conventional stock. Uses the easy to find and cheap AR magazines. Like the shotgun it is easy to break down for cleaning and maintenance.

The break down system prevents one from mounting any type of muzzle device which i would guess is partially why it has been largely ignored.

 

[Fiv3r]

Given the same choices, I went with the AR. The reasoning behind it is that I don't have a lot of money for guns. The AR allows me to have a platform that shoots a very readily available ammo through very cost effective magazines with a bajillion (yes, a bajillion. I counted) options in regards to optics, rails, add-ons, and ammo types.

But I'm a pretty plain jane kinda of guy. Even a barebones AR offers a shooting platform that I prefer over the AK variations, especially in .223.

Your mileage may vary

 

[jmr40]

You get a lot more gun for the money with an AR. Rugers are good enough, just way overpriced. If I could get one for $300 I'd buy one. Not at $600.

 

[83Enforcer]

Given the choices; go with the AR; more options are available.

 

[Panzercat]

/lols at the benelli. I can speak to the keltec, however. It's a great rifle.

 

[Shear_stress]

Whatever you do, don't check out the Daewoo K2 or DR200. Prices for these no longer importable guns have just about leveled off, and I'd rather they don't increase any more.

 

[6x6pinz]

^^^ I was just thinking that my DR200 would fit the bill. Great shooter really like it alot.

 

[Wildbillz]

Thanks for the replys.

I guess I should have been clearer. I have an AR, the others are not choises, just a couple that I know are on the market.

Anyone have any experance with an MSAR (Aug wanabe)

WB

 

[RECIT]

MSAR trigger leaves a lot to be desired, plenty accurate and plenty of plastic. One cool feature is the quick change barrel, but only really helps if you have another barrel...which are expensive!

 

[Robert]

MSAR trigger leaves a lot to be desired

Like pulling a dead horse through mud...

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I would love to see something like a Winchester Model 100 in .223 rem. capable of using AR-15 magazines.