.25acp and .32acp

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Seecamp just reintroduced the .25 auto. I've got one. Just a lot of fun to shoot. Cycles everything I've put through it and, one more round than the .32. I can shoot that little gun like a sewing machine.

It's a seven try ice pick. That will hide in anything you can wear in public.
 
If you want something inexpensive (~$200 new) and reliable - the Kel-tec P32 has a good reputation, is small/thin, light, locked breech, and shoots easy. In blow-back, all stainless, even smaller but not lighter is the excellent Seecamp in 32 (continuous production), or 25 (older models from Milford, new current production from Southwick). These are excellent back-pocket pistols in a wallet holster. The Seecamp 32 is not to be used with FMJ, and has a heel mag release. The NAA Guardian 32 is a somewhat cruder version of the Seecamp, larger and heavier, but it does take a greater variety of 32 ammo compared to the Seecamp 32. It has a traditional button mag release.

For whatever reason, my Guardian 32 took a lot of effort to get it to where I was fully comfortable with it's reliability - I think it was a combination of ergonomics to my hand and spring life. It's reliable with PMC and Silvertip HP ammo, and that is what I carry in it. The trigger bar spring seems to have a limited lifetime, and I've had several break on me over the years. I now monitor round counts (including dry fire which exercises the trigger bar spring). 1000 cycles and the trigger bar and firing pin return springs get replaced. Still, I do actually love the little beast.

I have Bauer 25, stainless clone of the Baby Browning 25. It's very nice - and in testing it for safe carry, it will pull it's own trigger if dropped on the rear of the slide with the safety off. With safety on, the sear is locked. Needless to say, empty chamber is safest, but chambered, the safety on is a must.
 
For a pocket pistol, the locked-breech, hammer-fired, hybrid-DAO Kel-Tec P32 has been the "go-to" pistol for me since 2011. Seven rounds in a roughly-ten-ounce package provides a pretty good chance. It's usually carried as a second gun to whatever is on my hip, though.

I did just come int a Taurus TCP in .380 a few days ago, which ran pretty impressively at the range (it's a 2016 -production run; the later ones seem to run better than those made before around 2012-ish.) It may well be a new contender for that role.

I also own two PT-25s and one PT-22. They're nice little shooters that are easier to run than the P32 and fill the hand nicely. But, they're too much bigger than the .32 and .380 for me to consider pocket-carrying them.

As an aside, I'd love a Walther TPH in .22...
 
I don't consider 25 to be a SD cartridge and have never owned one. I don't consider 32acp to be one either, but own or have owned many.

If 25 or 32 works for you, get the Kel-Tec. It is small and very light. The sights are pretty much non-existent, but it is for up close. I got mine used for $120-something and it functions perfectly.

My others are too big for pocket carry. I really liked my FEG AP, but my relative talked me out of it. I disliked my Beretta Tomcat: it was heavy, picky about ammo, and had a horrible trigger. My CZ70 functions just fine, but it has a horrible trigger and is unpleasant to shoot. My Mauser 1914 is accurate and easy to shoot, but a bear to field strip and I have read the firing pin breaks easily.

My MAB Model D is a good gun and easy to shoot - my understanding is that it is more or less a copy of a Browning Model 1910. I have the long-barreled version of the Beretta that is somewhat similar to a Walther PP. It is very accurate.

I often carry the P3AT. It is not fun to shoot, but is reliable, has decent accuracy, and fires 380acp, which I consider to be an okay but not great SD cartridge. It is barely bigger than the P32 and has an actual front sight.
 
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Off the top of my head, I would guess that the popularity of both 25 and 32 ACP is shrinking rather than growing. 25 ACP guns began to be replaced by 32 ACP guns of about the same size and weight around 30 years ago, with the introduction of the Seecamp 32 automatic.

That caused 32 ACP popularity to grow for a while, but at least 10 years ago it became possible to get 380 ACP pistols in about the same size and weight, which has caused 32 ACP popularity to dwindle again, I think.

The "pocket pistol" niche that 32 ACP used to fill was filled by 380 ACP after 1945, but about 20-25 years ago it began to be possible to get 9mm Parabellum pistols in the same size (the Star Firestar and the Kahr P-9). 40 S&W guns and even 45 ACP are also available in this size, but people seem to talk about the decline of 40 S&W, so I don't know how well these calibers are selling.

I think that the only way for the 25 to recover would be the reintroduction of guns that are physically too small to chamber anything else, like the Bauer/Fraser/FN 25 Baby, or the Walther Model 9 or suchlike. I have no idea if guns like that would sell well.

All the above is just me talking. The thing to actually do is check ammunition sales by caliber over the last few years, if such information is available.

The other point to make is that the "installed base" of guns (including many of high quality) in 25 and 32 ACP is absolutely enormous, so neither caliber is going away anytime soon. Look at how 32 and 38 S&W linger on, a century after the vogue for them began to die.

Aside: Personally, I am surprised that 9x23 Winchester has not caught on, since it seems to offer a modern level of firepower for an all-steel 1911-size pistol. Perhaps it is very unpleasant to shoot?

Tallball: You are right, the MAB D is based on the FN 1910, with the grip shape redesigned, which was the key to making it pleasant to shoot. The French also re-designed the safety mechanism, although I couldn't tell you how. I do think that the placement of the manual safety catch on the MAB D looks better but is not actually as functional as that of the FN 1910. Most MAB Ds also seem to have slightly better sights, too.
 
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What would you consider the smallest locked-breech .32? The PSA clone of the Baby Browning is still in production, and it's definitely smaller than a Kel-Tec P32. It's also smaller than a Seecamp, although the Seecamp isn't locked-breech.
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I wasn't aware that any variants of the Baby Browning were still in production; I stand corrected. I assume they are not very common? How does the PSA compare to the P32 in terms of weight?
 
benEzra said:
I wasn't aware that any variants of the Baby Browning were still in production; I stand corrected. I assume they are not very common? How does the PSA compare to the P32 in terms of weight?
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OK, just threw them on the scale. (Full disclosure: I have the all-stainless version of the PSA Baby, and my P32 has a Northwoods aluminum trigger on it rather than the stock plastic one. Both will have some impact on weight.)

Fully loaded with FMJ (Winchester White Box flatnose for the P32 and Fiocchi for the Baby) they come to ...

Kel-Tec P32: 10.2 oz
PSA Baby: 10.8 oz

The PSA Baby is really not very common. Gunbroker right now is showing only two:

http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=precision+small+arms

Other than that, you'd have to order them direct from the manufacturer, which, if I can believe what I've heard, is a one-man enterprise:

http://www.precisionsmallarms.com/

I got mine from a local FFL who fell in love with them at the SHOT Show about five years ago and picked up three for his shop. They're really beautiful little works of art, but not what you'd want as a primary carry gun. I'd rate mine as easier to shoot than an NAA mini-revolver, but harder to shoot than a Seecamp .25 or a Beretta Jetfire. Or a P32.
 
A Kel-Tec P32 is huge compared to the little Browning copies. Bauer in the pic, but the PSA is identical.

photo1_zps6507972e.png
 
Don't have any .32s these days but did have some fine ones years ago. Both a Walther and a Manurhin PP and one sweet Beretta Model 90 Roma were part of my collection way back when. Currently I have one .25: a mint Baby Browning Lightweight that I always wanted and was too great of a deal to pass up.
 
I love to shoot and enjoy my 1965 ERMA Luger in 32acp and my 1970 Zastava M70 in 32acp. But, there are too many more modern design pocket pistols in 380 for me to consider carrying the larger and heavier old classics in 32acp or 25acp.
 
sgt127 said:
Seecamp just reintroduced the .25 auto. I've got one. Just a lot of fun to shoot. Cycles everything I've put through it and, one more round than the .32. I can shoot that little gun like a sewing machine.

It's a seven try ice pick. That will hide in anything you can wear in public.
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Sgt127 - I inherited a "Colt Junior" .25 ACP that was NIB - - at least until I got it. ;)
For its short (1.5") barrel, it is surprisingly accurate. It is also a "7 + 1" capacity but DAO. I keep it with a chambered round, safety off, so all I have to do is cock the hammer. Every time I have a yard sale, it is resting comfortably in my pocket - JIC.
 
I'm a recent fan of 32 and the small pocket pistols that shoot it and 25. There are only a few already mentioned that are still in production today. Of those I own two: Seecamp RWS32 and a Kel-Tec P32. The P32 gets carried in a pocket holster almost every day, but occasionally gets replaced by a LCPII or a bigger 9mm.

But for me the draw of 32 and 25 is for the older historical handguns that I enjoy collecting and shooting every so often. In 25 I have a Beretta Jetfire 950B and a FN 1905(6). In.32 along with the Kel-Tec P32 and Seecamp I also own a Beretta Tomcat 3032, CZ70, VZ61 SBR, Bernardelli Model 60, FN1922, and a Savage 1917. There are a number of other 32acp guns I want to add to my collection in the future.
 
JTHunter writes, of the Colt Junior:

It is also a "7 + 1" capacity but DAO. I keep it with a chambered round, safety off, so all I have to do is cock the hammer.
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You meant it's a SAO, right?

I carried a Phoenix HP22A like that for a little while (before I got my P32.)
 
I consider the .25 ACP Phoenix Model Raven gifted to me in 1992 to be almost a curio. I take it out once a year, fire the two magazines empty, clean it, reload the magazines, put it up for next year's outing. It has run 100% so far and four inch pattern at 7 yards off hand. I have carried it as backup to other guns: striker down on empty chamber.

My minimum self defense handgun for venturing into cell phone dead zones or isolated places is a well-tested Rossi snub .38 Spl.

ADDED: The various .32s can be very accurate for target practive, and less expensive for practice if you handload. I believe that stats on real world .32 ACP defensive an crime shootings show a world of difference between th .32 ACP in FMJ hard ball and softnose rounds like .32 ACP Win Silvertip.
 
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I bought a raven arms p-25 here recently at a gun shop for $50 which should be at most gun shops but for some reason most are still tryin to get $100 or more which baffles me! but this little pistol shoots very well for its age! so guys who makes 25acp pistols at this time??
 
midland man said:
so guys who makes 25acp pistols at this time??
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Seecamp, Beretta, and Phoenix are the only ones I can think of.

Seecamp only shows the .32 and .380 on their website, but they're making .25s again. You have to call and order. They will take your order and ship to an FFL, but they give a substantial discount to FFLs, so it might be worth it to order through a friendly one. If he's not too greedy, he can make more than his transfer fee while you save a bunch: win-win.

http://www.seecamp.com/

Beretta still lists the Bobcat 21A in .25 as a current-production model, but I have no idea where you'd find a new one. All I ever see is used ones, and not too many of those.

http://www.beretta.com/en-us/21-a-bobcat/

Phoenix is alive and well. You can get one from Bud's for $122 cash money.

https://www.phoenix-arms.com/pages/hp25a

I thought Taurus was still making the PT-25, but apparently not in this country anymore. It's listed on their website in the "archive" of discontinued models.
 
This is a little .25 one of my baby sitters had that took care of my kids. I believe it was called a Sata and was Italian from the 1960's. Her Dad brought it into the US after being stationed in Italy.

Just thought something different might be nice.

-kBob
 

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Taurus still lists the .22-PLY and the .25-PLY,,,
They are simply hard to find in stock.

I own the .22 and the .25 versions of the gun,,,
Both of mine have proven to be very reliable shooters.

MouseGuns.JPG


The .22 eats mini-mags all day long,,,
The .25 has eaten 3-400 rounds of several different brands.

The .22 is a 9-shooter while the .25 is a 10-shooter,,,
Both guns are DAO with tip-up barrel.

Aarond

.
 
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