28 weeks later got me thinking and debating w/ friends about how I would arm others

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I'll bite...

A couple .22 semi-autos, be they 10/22s, Plinksters, whatever.

A couple 91/30s and M44s.

4 Hi-Point 9mm Carbines.

2 Pardner Pumps in 12 ga.

Spend the rest on ammo.

Orrrr...


Drop the carbines, replace them with 2 .357 lever guns.

Drop 2 Mosins and give somebody with bad eyes a .357 revolver for up-close work.

Oooooorrr...

Replace the 2 Pardners with 1 used 870, replace the 4 carbines with 1 1911, and replace everything else with a beat up M1 garand and win every internet contest left after the s hits the f while the roving groups of bandits overwhelm your defenses with their Glocks and AR15s...



Whoa, got a little out there for a second... :eek:

I gotta learn to leave these threads alone! :cuss:

gp911
 
I'm more worried about breakdowns in our social systems. Too many people in the cities (both haves and have nots...) have come to rely on a very fragile infrastructure. If the power goes out for a week in August in the midwest, you're gonna have riots.

Likewise, if the transport system breaks down, etc., etc...

The cheap AKs are good to about 300 yards or so. The cheap bolt actions should hold together to about 600 yards. Accuracy _can_ make up for firepower.
 
Assuming I hole up in my home, I have enough guns and ammo for myself and a few close trusted friends...however these friends have the same mindset as I do and have guns of their own. Btw,survival and storage plans change incredibly when you have a wife and infant son to take care of...even more so when your expected guests have kids too.

And a lot of people tell me that when the shtf they're "coming to your house *chuckle*." I tell them to bring water,diesel and gasoline or go somewhere else. I'm not a charity.

The Scriptures tell the parable of the five wise and five foolish brides. When the foolish(unprepared) brides were not ready to meet the groom and they tried to bum some lamp oil from the brides who were ready,they were more or less told to pound sand. Now I'm all for lending a helping hand,but if you don't get ready when you've got time to get ready,I have zero sympathy for you.

That said and getting back on topic,I say get some cheap .22s for the crappy shots and some AKs in 5.45 or 7.62(whichever ammo you can find cheaper) for the people who won't waste your bullets. But, knowing they're going up against armed and determined people will keep most goons at bay...the only scenario that calls for lots of ammo is the extremely far-fetched zombie invasion.
 
First off, great movie. I had to chuckle a few times at the military tactics (and I kept thinking where's the AF?), but I love zombie films, so I was pleased.

2TransAms said:
Btw,survival and storage plans change incredibly when you have a wife and infant son to take care of...even more so when your expected guests have kids too.
Click to expand...

Heh, the whole time during the movie I was thinking, kids, women, elderly, they all get you killed!

Anyway, given that 1. you likely will have to defend others 2. those with long range skill will likely have their own arms: I would vote for a couple pump shotguns and a few 30-30 lever guns.

Give the shotguns to anyone that handle 'em effectively and toss the lever guns to the rest. Shotguns can protect the core of your operation effectively, and 3-4 lever guns will give you a good medium range fire team. Long range shooting shouldn't be as important, and those who can shoot will have their own rifles. Might work...
 
what is the fascination with shtf scenarios?
Click to expand...


It's a fair question.

As I've said on a few of these threads, SHTF has so many various interpretations and scenerios, the term SHTF is essentially meaningless.

Any thread that wishes to address a emergency/disaster/civil unrest issue inevitably becomes a TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) discussion. Those may be discussions worthy of being had, but are generally received as far-fetched and fantasy. I am not advocating nor discouraging such discussions, but I am realistic as to how they are being received on most gun forums.

While I will chime in on these threads when they pop up, I go to Zombie Squad for any serious discussions of disaster preparation. Here (and other gun forums) you get a mix of knowledgeable people and people who have never seen a realistic challenge to their lives. Both of these camps are speaking as experts. On Zombie Squad, those guys live for this stuff-- and beat down stupidity with a big stick when they see it.


But to answer the question, I can only say this. I never worried about preparation before Katrina. You live through something like that and experience daily for weeks realizations of how small things you never thought of could have temendously impacted the meeting of needs, quality of life, and comfort of living-- well, then you tend to think about it in the future. You begin to examine the things you are doing, and evaluate them from a perspective shared by you and others that have been through challenge. You CAN'T think the way you used to think again. Memories that it DID happen steels your resolve that you will make sure you are prepared for the unexpected in the future.

If you know what you are doing, you keep it to yourself in your community. After all, it only takes a few minutes on one of these forums for someone whose worst SHTF was the cable going out to tell you that you are a tin-foil hat wearing idiot.

I knew some of those people during Katrina. One had to borrow $200 dollars and 10 gallons of gasoline from me because he only had 1/4 tank of gas in his car, and no food in the house. By the time he came to us for help, he and his wife had been eating peanut butter with a spoon for two days.

Did I manage to get the answer in during that little rambling monologue? (I have to watch myself.)


-- John
 
2 grand eh? i'll throw my hat in the ring
model 91/30s go for 73 bucks
model 44 mosins go for 60ish
sks's go for about 170 now? lets go with that

so two 91/30s will be 150
three hi points go for 350? carbines
five sks m59/66s cost 850
thats a total of 1350 and i can arm 10 people decently well
pa-63s still go for 120 if you order more than 2, so i'd get 5 just for sidearms for some of them

that leaves 850 for ammo. 1 case for the mosins, 1 case for the pa-63s and the rest in 7.62x39 and 9mm

my logic is the mosins can be used for long range work, maybe cobble on some cheapie scopes? sidearms go to the mosin guys / gals and some of the sks people. my logic being that sometimes strippers are tricky to load, and these people will need a back-up a bit more than the others.
 
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Arming the Circle

For close friends and/or relatives who don't have anything, but have at least a little experience...a .22 rifle or maybe a .38 revolver for self-protection. Your circle of "Gunny" friends should already be prepared.

For casual aquaintences and neighbors whom you barely know...you sharpen a butter knife for'em and let'em get their own. Offer to act as an armed escort while they forage for their weapon if you feel the need. If they come back with a gun...fine. If they don't...you're only out a butter knife. Arming the general public and/or people that you barely know "just because" is a slippery and potentially deadly slope. The act of trying to help may one day be your undoing.

The possible exception is barter and trade...but you'd still want to be careful
about who you deal with.
 
SLV, thank you for sharing that. I read every word. Very interesting. When fantasy becomes reality.
 
Petrograd

I had a friend when I lived in Kazakhstan, who had been in a scenario a bit like this. He was something like a lieutenant in the Red Army in WWII, and was at a battle where the Fascists were invading a city, I believe it was St. Petersburg/Petrograd (he was definitely at that battle, but I'm not completely sure it's the one this story came from).

Anyway, He and a thousand or so of his army buddies had this area of the city with no nazis in it yet, and they had set up a perimeter to try and keep them out. In addition to the soldiers, there were a few thousand people from the city. But there were only several hundred functioning rifles. And they didn't get to choose what kind.

They formed a front line that consisted of the people with rifles. Behind them was a second line consisting of people with blunt, edged, and incendiary weapons (knives, hatchets, meat cleavers, big sticks, rocks, pipe bombs, whatever). When a guy with a rifle fell, someone else picked up the rifle and took his place. If anyone got through the perimeter, it was the job of the second line to bash cut and burn them.

From what I gather, it was not a fun battle. But the guy was alive to tell me about it in the 1990's, so i guess the strategy is worth remembering.
 
... it's not my job to arm the masses.
Click to expand...

true. But how about your extended family? Brothers and sisters, aged parents, cousins, nieces and nephews, that sort of thing? How many of us make provisions for them? I think it's basically a good Idea. That way, also, if things transpire in such a way that I can't get home to my guns, I have a few other houses i can go to to access similar ones.
 
My firearms are enough to arm just about anyone I would let tag along, but for the rest:

One single shot .223 with a scope
One pump shotgun 12ga
As many 10/22s I can buy with the rest

oh and spears, lot of em...ha
 
I couldn't see giving a semi-auto to anyone who is really a novice. They would just waste ammo and not hit anything. I like the suggestion about about arming those who know how to shoot and letting everyone else carry ammo, food, etc.

I like shotguns primarily. They can be used for small game and make good short range weapons. They also have very crude sights for people who can't use iron sights anyway. Save your rifles for people who actually know how to use them. You wouldn't expect a novice to shoot at anything over 40 or 50 yards anyway.

You can clean up on pump action shotguns at pawn shops down here if you aren't too picky and pay in cash.
 
I like the slogan "If a man can only have one gun, he had a shotgun." Remington 870s aren't very much, I would say mix between them and SKS to have a balance between short and medium range firepower. The SKS would take targets 200 yards out in the hands of a decent amateur I would think, and the shotgun would have the short range stopping power and versatitilty that you would need in such a scenario.
 
Corrected Link

22-rimfire,

I corrected my link - originally it was just to one page in the entire story. If you did read the whole thing, then you are a fast reader!

EVERYONE needs to read the first-hand account of TSHF in Argentina. See the link in my previous posts

SLV
 
If I were to have to live through a "28 weeks" situation in Phoenix, the only option would be to arm up as many folks as possible and bug out.

The place would be a germ-infested death trap with minimal/no water and no future in agriculture. The only escape is up into the high country in the surrounding mountains.

There are 5 million potential zombies in Phoenix, so I need to carry lots of ammo. But I can only carry a few hundred rounds along with water and food, so I need other folks to carry ammo also. I initially thought "Don't give anyone a gun for free", but they aren't getting it for free: they are getting it to help me escape. They are my ammo mules. They are my fire team.

If I could get 10-20 people to move as a group with me carrying 200 rounds a piece, that would be up to 4000 rounds. It's not perfect, but its a good start. Having a couple folks armed with .22LR rifles will greatly increase ammo capacity, so I would probably choose to equip 2 people with Marlin 60's, 795's or Ruger 10/22's. They would each carry 1000 rounds of .22LR. Everybody else would get SKS rifles. If we get mobbed by more than a couple hundred zombies, we're done, but we should be able to eliminate a couple large waves.

My choice, with $2000?
2 x Marlin 795 synthetic stock rifles, Simmons scopes, extra mags ($400)
8 x SKS rifles ($1200)
4 x Mosin Nagant 91/30 rifles w/ slip-on recoil pads ($400)

Any more people than that would carry only ammunition, and be tasked with loading stripper clips and magazines during engagements.

I included Mosins in the equation because they are manual actions. If I am equipping gun newbies, I want them to have some sort of backup if their weapons jam. I would have 2 fire teams, front and back. Each team would consist of 1 .22LR rifle, 2 Mosins and 4 SKS rifles. The .22 would be tasked with eliminating minor zombie threats to conserve valuable (and loud) centerfire ammunition, so any engagement with hostiles would begin with the .22 eliminating small parties, only being helped by the remaining fire team when the creature closes within 50 yards. In the event of a swarm, all shooters would open fire until the threat was neutralized.

I would hope that 5000 rounds and 15 or so guns would get me to relative safety...
 
bigred82:

The problem with your argument (that you should stick to something that fires .223) is that if you're going to be going around picking up ammo off of dead bodies, you no doubt will also be able to get a few rifles off those bodies. I mean, if the ammo dumps are open to the public and dead soldiers are everywhere, why assume that you'll be able to find is US military ammo but no guns and no foreign ammo? Sounds like what you really need in that kind of situation is a stockpile to hold down the fort until you can go scavenge for all kinds of things.

With that in mind I'm thinking some kind of night vision equipment would be good, but that stuff gets pricey really quick.
 
if this were strictly a zombie scenario then I would buy .22 pistols and rifles and lots of cleaning equipment, probably keep my normal guns to myself. A high velocity 22 is more than enough for a zombies brain (the only shot that counts) and they are the easiest gun for a novice to shoot. Ammo is still dirt cheap so you would have the ability to load up on 1000's of rounds. a rifle that takes magazines would be preferable and perhaps pistols even.
 
Well, the best option was already given. Romanian WASR-2 AK-74s. Bakelite mags are cheap as is 5.45x39mm ammo.

As to the comment of vast fields of military goods being available if it were a civil war/invasion. True. To a point.

Myself I'm thinking, small arms of the civie legal type are simply a "butterknife" gun. You use it to get something better.

If let's say, AK and RPG armed Asians came (yeah, unlikely but I think you see where I'm going), they'd be hit repeatedly, and well by both our boys, and us. Scrounge that battlefield afterwards, and anyone without a gun would have one fairly quickly, and you'd have some heavy weapons. Eventually, you'd probably have Green Berets get dropped in to help you in your little fight.

Oh, ut..oh. Red...Dawn...is...calling.........
 
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