28 weeks later got me thinking and debating w/ friends about how I would arm others

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wacki

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End of the world scenario. Zombies or otherwise doesn't really matter. You have enough high end guns for you and your closest friends. But some other people will surely come along. Pretend these other people will be loyal to your cause. Distant friends, extended family, whatever.... You have a $1,500-$2000 budget to arm these people. If you buy a rifle you will find someone to fire it. My buddy and I were debating between SKS and the AK47. Basically the debate was "would you rather have 10 people with SKS's or 5 w/ AK's?" Then we started debating prices and stuff and if a 2:1 ratio is indicative of current market prices. So now I'm here to see what the good people of THR can come up with.


Here are some price comparisons:
SKS
http://www.shooterssupplyco.com/SKS PAGE.htm
Excel.Cond PRICE $159.00 Never Issued condition Price $ 249.00

AK47
http://www.shooterssupplyco.com/AK 47 PAGE.htm
Excel.Cond PRICE $469.00 ea. Never Issued condition ????

You are not limited to this store of course. If you can find a store that sells the gun at a certain price (that's available to all THR members) then you can base your decision off of that price. The guns can even be kits and you assemble them yourself. You are simply limited on the amount of money you can spend on the rifles. The budget is $2,000. A second question is if you are limited to a $1,500 budget would that change your choice of rifle at all?

EDIT: Budget if for arms only. If you really want to discuss ammo go ahead and slap $750 on the budget for a total of $2,750 to spend as you please. You already own reloading/swagging equipment. When preparing for the apocalypse what gun owner wouldn't have reloading equipment?
 
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Might want to think about things like recoil and action control with inexperienced shooters during a SHTF situation.

Recoil from a 12ga or 7.62x54R out of a short barrel is not something pleasant and many new shooters would doubtfully be able to hit anything. Also, working a pump or bolt action when inexperienced can lead to quick jams.

My thoughts run more towards cheap, semi-auto .22LR rifles like a Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22. Give them something that won't recoil badly, doesn't need them to do anything but pull the trigger, and ammo will be cheap for you to afford a stockpile.

Granted, you won't be shooting long range with a .22, but how many new shooters are going to be able to hit anything past 100yds with any regularity anyways? They'll provide cover fire while you go for the kill shot. :evil:
 
I'd have to go with the WASR-2 (AKM clone), currently selling for $290.00 at aimsurplus.com. The 5.45 has little recoil and the AK is dead-nuts simple to use. It is a proven design that can stand not to be cleaned regularly. Lower the selector to fire, insert a mag, pull the charging handle back and release... you're ready to fight crime, zombies, tyrants, aliens, or whatever.
 
If it's the end of the world, I doubt gun stores will be open..... the owners will be keeping their guns. I also doubt people will be selling them either.

You want guns for the end of the world, you better already have them.
 
you could buy alot of Mossbergs with that budget. Shotguns would be very effective for moving in a group as most encounters would be at close range. But I would get some rifles good for long range shots or sniping.

I would also consider the weight and size of the various ammunition when choosing. Each person is going to have to be able to carry as much as possible. Say if someone was to carry 500 rounds in a pack or bag, would 500 rounds of 12 gauge shells be as easy to carry as 500 rounds of 7.62? I would think the brass would be heavier to carry but the shot shells would be more bulky due to the size/width.
 
I've been buying SKSes for years as I run into a good deal, specifically for that very reason. To me they make a lot of sense for that role. They're cheap, easy to learn, fit smaller shooters if needed, have low recoil, and until recently the ammo for them was quite inexpensive. Also, you can buy a lot of stripper clips for the price of only a couple magazines to fit other guns.
 
The SKS has a whole heck of alot going for it besides cost. It is heavy enough to absorb any recoil generated by the X39 round. It is a bit more accurate then the AK, ammo on strippers is lighter and easy to carry, integral bayonet, abuse resistant, makes a great club/melee weapon and is a good proven war arm.

10 people with SKS's who have some modicum of training would be a force to be reckoned with IMHO. Again the training is key. They don't need to be marine corp. riflemen but they need basic firearms safety, handling and marksmanship training.

Basically put me in the SKS camp.
 
Everyone doesn't need a firearm, your distant friends can carry the ammo, food, and other supplies while you and your close friends and family provide the protection.
 
If it's the end of the world, I doubt gun stores will be open..... the owners will be keeping their guns. I also doubt people will be selling them either.

You want guns for the end of the world, you better already have them.
Click to expand...

That's the point. Sorry if it wasn't clear.
 
A buddy of mine and I where having this discussion regarding that his Mosin Nagant would be a great hand out rifle because of cost and cost of ammo. Then we shot it and realized that novice shooters might not be comfortable with the recoil. SKS are hard to beat though.
 
5 AKs....because I only got 5 friends! :neener:

I have always liked the AK. Reliability, numerous options, numerous available parts and mags, nice round, and friends/family are familiar with weapon.

YMMV Watch your back... ;)
 
Here are some price comparisons:
SKS
http://www.shooterssupplyco.com/SKS PAGE.htm
Excel.Cond PRICE $159.00 Never Issued condition Price $ 249.00

AK47
http://www.shooterssupplyco.com/AK 47 PAGE.htm
Excel.Cond PRICE $469.00 ea. Never Issued condition ????
Click to expand...


I'd probably go the route of AK's. I don't have very much experience with SKS's, and *I'll* have my AK's.

There are a couple ways to mitigate costs. Like someone already said, if you don't have it now, you won't easily be getting it when you need it. So, that implies a planning stage. What about this route:

Get Saiga AK's for the friends. You can add a feed ramp with a piece of 1" pipe cut in half and it will feed standard AK magazines. It would be not much more than the SKS in the quoted above. The Saiga will be one of the most accurate AK's you can buy-- and most affordable.


Romanian Parts kits, and Nodak Spud Receivers-- OR even bend-it-yourself-flats. If I needed to have 10 AK's as affordable as possible, I'd invest in a flat bender, some bolt-cutter rivet pressers, and a gear puller to pull barrels. Then get Romanian "G" parts kits for $109 each. A 10 pack of AK reciever flats would run about $120 dollars-- or pre-made Nodak Spud Receivers can be had for less than $50. The initial cost of tools would be amortized into the price of each AK built and rapidly pays for themselves in savings.



-- John
 
I agree with "let them buy their own"

I have had several people tell me I'm comming to your place when the SHTF. Some of them have way better paying jobs thn me. I work two jobs trying to make ends meet and supply my hobbies. If you think I'm going to give someone one of my guns just because they don't have one... They better have a pretty good reason and plan.

Steve
 
Thinking like this is why i keep two norinco sks' loaded with 50rd clips in the safe...one for me, one for the misses.
 
I would go with sks for this purpose. Cost is the biggest factor.
I haven't seen the film, but the general scenario of arming someone from 'outside' is not one I can afford. But an sks is versatile enough to be tweaked into a main weapon for an experienced shooter (ie. built up to their needs) or can be a fairly good arm for an inexperienced shooter. Not a perfect situation at all.

But the sks is cheap enough right now, and the 7.62 x 39 Soviet seems to be coming down in price a bit.
 
In a war situation and this would be one, there will be lots of guns flying around and if you have a few, you can take what you need as the bad guys try to take what you have. If you can't weather that initial storm, you probably won't be making it anyway. The young and the strong survive as in all situations of this nature. I would't worry about it as it is not going to happen. If it does, there will be a lot of things to worry about beyond what guns you want to own or do own. Things like food and clean water become rather important.

I would vote for the SKS. Seems like a rifle that less experienced people can readily learn to shoot sufficiently well. As to shooting ability.... there are lots of people in our military and every military that can't hit a 6" plate at 100 yds. People who can shoot well have always been in the minority. This won't change.
 
If I were going to deal with outfitting a group ahead of time ... SKS, .357 leverguns, .357 pistols.

And everyone gets the same blasted models so we can interchange parts for repairs if necessary.
 
frankly, if its the end of the world as we have known it, all considerations of cost, availibility and the like are out the window.

Besides, if you arm a friend, and he has the rage virus, he may turn on you the next day and kill you to eat your brains. :what:
 
If it does, there will be a lot of things to worry about beyond what guns you want to own or do own. Things like food and clean water become rather important.
Click to expand...

1 year supply of food = $700 at beprepared.com

I'm on a well. I live by a lake and ceramic water filters are easy to make from the local soil. Water will not be a problem. Still, this is a hypothetical situation and I'd like to stay on topic. Thanks for your input though!
 
GTsteve03 said:
Might want to think about things like recoil and action control with inexperienced shooters during a SHTF situation.
Click to expand...
22-rimfire said:
Things like food and clean water become rather important.
Click to expand...
I agree. My thoughts are that the survivors will probably end up needing food more than protection. For less than $200 everyone should own a good scoped .22 rifle with a couple thousand rounds of ammo. You can inflict damage on the enemy or game out to 150 yards. That's far enough for any untrained shooter.
Back in '99 when Y2K was about to happen we had quite a few friends that did not own guns. A few went out and bought guns, mostly shotguns, and the rest said "we are coming to your house".
Y2K never happened but we should always be prepared, especially nowadays.
 
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