.30-06 have any chance on a Lion??

[JShirley]

I think I'd be using 12 gauge with buckshot. Of course, that might kill every living thing in the neighborhood, so maybe not.

A good 3" magnum slug would be my choice, of the two. I imagine you're only going to be shooting if this thing is coming at you, so range limitation won't be an issue. Also, should you (1) happen to see the beast, (2) happen to need to defend yourself, and (3) happen to miss, the slug'll run out of steam a lot quicker.

John

 

[MeekandMild]

John, I don't think I'm going to sleep very well tonight after reading about your uncle.

 

[Art Eatman]

Y'know, I very carefully refrained from smartin' off about buckshot. I really did. I was proud of myself for my self restraint.

But in any crowd there's always that one guy...

, Art

 

[Quartus]

Chance encounter in the park doesn't argue for a need for range, methinks. Under those conditions I think fast follow up would be important. A pump 12 with slugs would be my choice over a bolt '06.


Staying in would be my first choice.

 

[artherd]

His gun, a Rem 7600, is a pump-action .30-06 rifle with a 4-round magazine. (I hav ea 7400, it's semi-auto cousin.)


Federal makes a Barnes XLC solid copper 180grain bullet loading. These penetrate to an amazing degree, and carry much more muzzle energy than the lead 220s.

If I *had* to face a lion with a 7600, that would be what I'd use.

I would perfer a .338 Lapua, or a semi-auto BAR in .338 WinMag however. Actually, I'd perfer an A-MAX expanding tipped .50BMG and an elevated position, but hey.

Then again, this may be just the time for you to invest in a Barrett 99 (or M82A1 )

 

[Battlespace]

I remember reading Outdoor Life at the barber shop and seeing Colonel Cooper with a Lion and a 30-06. Even at the wise age of 10 or 11, I thought maybe he was pressing the envelope a tad.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I think that Colonel Cooper killed his Lion with a .350Rem Mag didn't he??

Or has he killed more than one?

 

[smokemaker]

Being a fan of Elmer Keith, and believing that big holes in and big holes out equals dead critter, I'd certainly take the .405 1895 out with the new Barnes .300 grain X-bullet out against lion, (levergun fast, and hittin' em hard) but the 30-06 might be a touch, um, weak. The .338-06 or .35 Whelen may be the minimum. KE figures don't tell the whole story, bullet diameter accounts for something.

If you are in a lion encounter and you are close enough for buckshot, you are in a world of poo, my friend.

Friends don't let friends use buckshot.

12 Ga with heavy slugs might be OK, but not with pistol bullets in sabots.

And, of course, somebody has to say it, so it may as well be me... Bell used a 6.5 in africa for blah blah blah.

 

[walking arsenal]

well, ive never hunted a lion or anything mean for that matter. but from what i know from self defense my thoughts would be.......

from what ive read the lion (cant believe im typing this) will probably be after you before you know its there? it is a predator like most Bad Guys so my guess would be that youd want somthing with some punch that you could throw a lot of lead fast with.

maybe a

10mm, .500 S&W? any hefty lever gun, ummmm short barreled 12 ga with slugs would do nicely. lets see m-60..........im babling (sigh) forget i said anything :banghead:

 

[artherd]

M-60 firing all AP, now you're talking.

Or a LAW.

 

[AKAMac]

Video clip

lion video

Big file but will give you an idea of what damage they can endure. Click on LION VIDEO in first post.

 

[H&Hhunter]

KE figures don't tell the whole story, bullet diameter accounts for something.

Smoke,

Bullet diameter accounts for alot..........Especially when we compare simular weight bullets at simular velocities.And in particular on larger animals

A .300Weatherby firing a 180gr bullet at say 3100FPS has nearly the same energy as a 300gr .375 at 2500fps. On paper this would indicate that they should have a simular ammount of knock down and killing power.

Notthing could be further from the truth. There is no comparison between a .300 and a .375. The .375 is twice the rifle when it comes to knock down than a .300 is becuase of the bullet diameter and weight advantage of the .375.

I was going to post this when I first read the fellows post comparing the 06 to the 405. Once again a simular power level on paper yet a vastly different picture on large game.

Now here is where people tend to get confused on this issue. When hunting light game like deer and even elk who respond to bullet shock the precieved killing power of your high velocity bullets looks to be greater than with the slower heavy rounds. It looks impresive when an animal dramatically drops to a behind then shoulder body shot. So people who've never hunted truley large and highly adrenalized game don't understand that "bullet shock" has no affect what so ever on these animals. And that is where the heavier larger diameter bullets come in . They don't impart so much shock but they have bone breaking knock down power.

As the infamous "lion video" clearly shows if you want to stop a PO'd lion you'd better have enough gun........

 

[Swamprabbit]

Considering how much African game has been taken over the years with the .303 and 7x57, I doubt that the Lion will be able to argue much with a 220grain premium slug coming at him out of a 30-06.

 

[Bigjake]

WHOA

after watching that, i vote you stay indoors......


edited,

looks woefully at garand in corner, and for the first time ever feels at a big loss.....

 

[scotjute]

Black92lx,
Just for curiousity sake, do you intend to open carry rifle in city park, and will rifle be in one hand and dog leash in the other?

 

[JohnDog]

Man - that thing was moving and absorbing damage! I might go for a 10 shot 50 BMG Barret semi-auto if I was lookking to go mano-a-mano with one of them critters.

Maybe you should try a lion sniping engagement from an upstair window. Put a couple of rounds in him without giving him any targets to take his anger out on.

JohnDog

 

[smokemaker]

Does anybody know what that lucky gent in the lion video was using?

Good thing he wasn't using buckshot... the whole hunting party would've perished.

H&H, thanks for validating my "big bore beliefs". I think those fast smallbores have a place, and the ol' 30-naught-6 may be the most versatile round in north america, but the slower, heavy bullet heaving big bores get the nod when the pucker factor has the potential to go high.

I have nothing against the '06, but it has it's place. That place is not dangerous game hunting. I like the .405 because it has no belt, hit's harder than the paper ballistics give it credit for, and Winchester 1895's are just cool as heck.

 

[Matt G]

was going to post this when I first read the fellows post comparing the 06 to the 405. Once again a simular power level on paper yet a vastly different picture on large game.

Now here is where people tend to get confused on this issue. When hunting light game like deer and even elk who respond to bullet shock the precieved killing power of your high velocity bullets looks to be greater than with the slower heavy rounds. It looks impresive when an animal dramatically drops to a behind then shoulder body shot. So people who've never hunted truley large and highly adrenalized game don't understand that "bullet shock" has no affect what so ever on these animals. And that is where the heavier larger diameter bullets come in . They don't impart so much shock but they have bone breaking knock down power.

As the infamous "lion video" clearly shows if you want to stop a PO'd lion you'd better have enough gun.....

Speaking as one who will readily admit that he has never hunted dangerous game, I do not mean to argue, but wish to question why the .405, which has limited SD, would be so very much better than a 220g '06, which has mucho sectional density. We agree that on the big animals, "shock" is not the question as much as breaking through is. Though not my first choice (nor even my 15th choice), I would think that a round that could penetrate the lion would be the preferred one, if the energies were similar.

The .405 has been pretty much dismissed as a lion round, from what I've read. Teddy was lucky. (Thank goodness. We'll never see another like him.)

 

[H&Hhunter]

The .405 has been pretty much dismissed as a lion round, from what I've read. Teddy was lucky. (Thank goodness. We'll never see another like him.)

Matt,

The .405 VS the 06 was a poor example to use for my point.

I was trying to get across that diameter and weight at a given velocity has alot more knock down ability than the paper balistics would indicate.

A .400+ (.416,.423,.425) diameter firing a 400gr bullet at around 2200FPS has proven to be a very effective buffalo and lion combo.

You are correct however in your statement that the .405 is severly lacking in sectional density. It is.

And at the same time, while the .405 has been dismissed as an adequate lion round the 06 never was...........

(RANT MODE ON)

GUYS............

HERE IS THE DEAL.

Bullet weight of 300grs SD of 300 or better diameter of .375 or greater and a ME of 4000Ftlbs or better are the established minimum for use on dangerous game. I like 5000FtLbs 500grs and a minimum of .458 on anything that has thick skin. I'd use a .375 on lion without hesitation.

This is really pretty simple. the .375H&H is the minimum that should be used on anything that can kill you back. There is a reason that Professionals and game departments require this as a sensible minimum.

The fact that some excentric old Scot or American or who ever used a whatever subcaliber watered down round 100 years ago is irrelevant. And untill you've seen a buff or some other critter soaking up well placed heavies like spit balls I guess it's just impossible to have any concept of what enough gun means.

To enter into tight cover after a wounded large dangerous animal with a light rifle is a suicide getting ready to happen. And even the most ardent light rifle fans of yore usually had a big heavy tucked away somewhere just for those unfortunate occasions. Either that or they just let them die and looked for vultures a few days later.

That was an entirely different program in those days.

(RANT MODE OFF)

Hey Matt,

I think you were saying Thank goodness TR was lucky. You best not be dissin my main man TR.

 

[HankB]

The .375 H&H is the quintessential lion gun.

Some years ago I took a lion and that's what I used, and I found out lions are tougher than you'd expect for "thin skinned" game. The bullet entered high on the lion's left shoulder, and was recovered just under the skin above what would be the lion's right "elbow." The recovered bullet - originally a 300 grain Swift "A-Frame" - weighed 258 grains.

This put the lion down with alacrity, and even though I hit plenty of bone, the bullet didn't exit on what was essentially a broadside shot.

With only one lion under my belt, I'm a far cry from being a lion expert . . . but it makes me wonder what a .30/06 would do with an identical hit.

My guess . . . nine out of ten times, a .30/06 will get the job done on lion, given a good bullet and good shot placement. But at those odds, I wouldn't willingly use my '06 if a .375 were available.

Closing thought: Yes, during the proverbial Good Old Days of African hunting, lots of lions were brought down by .303s, 7x57s, and .30/06s. These are the ones you read about. I wonder how many guys who tried the same didn't return to tell the tale and write a book for you to read?

 

[NRA4LIFE]

I heard a couple DJ's on the radio this morning out my way interviewing some guy who claimed to be from the Quitman, Arkansas area. He claimed to have killed 2 of the lions that were mentioned earlier in this thread. Didn't catch his name though. Maybe he could answer the question about the 30-06. Probably his deer rifle of choice.

 

[Al Thompson]

The '06 with 220 gr bulllets is really close to the .318 Rigby. I'd pop a lion with that combo if I spotted one in my yard. Beats going hand to hand anyday.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I'd pop a lion with that combo if I spotted one in my yard. Beats going hand to hand anyday.

Hey Al,

A real man strips down to his loin cloth puts an ostridge feater hat on and runs out there and antagonizes Mr kitty until he charges then stickes him with an asengi. Then he goes home has his buddies carve up his chest and rub ashes into the wounds so they scar up real nice. Then he goes and picks out any available chick he wants and takes her to his kraal and does what he likes......

Auhuuuuu the testosteron is flowing now!!!!

I'm just about worked up enough to go and order my wife to keep the skin on the chicken tonight.......

Yeah and then I'm going to have her clean this place up and get me a beer while I watch WWF all night!!!!!!!!!

Them darn Masai ain't so tough. If there was a Masai warrior here right now I'd kick his A$$.......

(We now interupt this macho male moment to bring our regularly scheduled programing)