.308 battle rifle choices?

[jason41987]

ive been posting a lot on here about different rifles, different projects.. and well, i used to have a decent collection.. but i had a few medical problems hit me and other financial issues relating to it that forced me to sell a lot of what i had... so im looking to rebuild my collection, of course, im starting out with military semi automatics (the most likely to face legislation) as the bolt actions and levers can wait till later

so... im looking for a battle rifle to add to the collection too (.308 semi automatic).. have mixed feelings about what i should purchase to fill this category... my choices are the M1A, FAL, saiga .308, and im sure there are some other options im not aware of, so feel free to mention others

however.. there are some designs i want to pass on, the AR10 for example, just not a fan of the platform, and im probably going to pass on the HK91 as well... i love the blowback design for battle rifles.. work well on a battlefield, but i also need something thats not going to wear brass faster so i can reload more

most of my experience is on the AK platform, and i had a garand as well, so the M1A and saiga have their personal benefits to me.. as for the FAL i never had much experience with these.. never knew anyone that had them and never had the opportunity to give one a try so im really not familiar with the interface or ergonomics of these.. but im certainly open.. they strike me as a rifle that were well ahead of their time, and with the aftermarket could compare well with any newer rifle

criteria.. .308 caliber as its for a battle rifle.. id like a vertical pistol grip.. due to a wrist injury my forearm gets fatigued pretty quickly when holding rifles without a pistol grip... so the M1A or saiga would need to be converted.. as for weight... anywhere around 8lbs is fine, i dont mind weight as much as a lot of people do and with a .308 a little weight isnt going to hurt

so out of the saiga, FAL, M1A, and other rifles not excluded that i havent mentioned... what features do these have that might make them particularly well suited for the battle-rifle role?

 

[SpentCasing]

SCAR17 is the best modern battle rifle IMO. Just depends if youre willing to spend that much.

 

[jason41987]

SCAR17 is the best modern battle rifle IMO. Just depends if youre willing to spend that much.

had an opportunity to play with one of these and i didnt really like it.. seemed like little more than a custom AR to me.. so i dont really think theyre worth that extra cost for what little they add to whats already available

 

[Gtimothy]

FAL anyone?

 

[9thchild]

Springfield Armory M1A.

 

[johnnydollar]

FAL anyone?

Very nice rifle, sir! Please tell us a little about the mods you've done to it.

 

[jason41987]

that is one gorgeous FAL... looks like a one-piece top rail supporting a free floating tube forend?.. love the saw grips too, fit my hands nicely... can you get a folding stock for those for storage purposes?... and FALs do have a bolt hold open i believe?.. i know the saigas do.... would love to see some more FAL/saiga/M1A photos

 

[lovethosesooners]

F-N-A-R
Truly is "bolt action accurate" (guaranteed 1 MOA), reasonable cost, reliable, great shooting rifle right out of the box

 

[barnbwt]

As much as I love my FNAR, I wouldn't make any pretense to it's being a "battle rifle." For what any of us (as civvies) will ever do, it's equally capable (if not more, perhaps) than so-called "battle" options. I wouldn't want to deal with servicing one on a (very) extended trip, or worry about what happens with (extremely) high round-counts.

The FNAR is a semi-auto box-fed .308 guaranteed to get 1MOA or less out of the box, and is based on the Browning BAR hunting rifle (it's actually an accurized clone). They go new for just under 1000$. Be honest about what you really need your rifle for, and the FNAR is probably more than sufficient.

However, if you are looking for a semi .308 with Military Gravitas, there are some other options that haven't been mentioned:

BM-59; Italian post-war conversion of the M1 Garand that uses detachable 20-round mags
FN-49; The predecessor (ancestor) of the FAL. The Columbian contract guns have a detachable 20-round mag in .308, and fully adjustable gas system. Beauty of a Garand with the beautiful mechanism of the FAL . Non-detachmable mag models hold 10 rounds, but takes M1 strippers(in my case). These rifles saw service in Korea, South America, and Africa (probably elsewhere, too). I love my FN49 in 30-06 (Luxembourg contract)
MAS 49/56; French Post War Main Rifle; originally in 7.5 French, there are conversions to .308 out there that actually work
Galil; I'm not familiar with these, but I believe Galils were made in 308NATO. The Israeli rebuttal to the AK.
PTR91/G3/CETME; Delayed blowback actions. Rough on brass, very reliable, very filthy after a few rounds. Used in the cheaper NATO countries like eastern Europe, Germany, and Spain (to my knowledge).
AR10; super sized AR15 direct impingement action, I belive (I'm not very familiar with these). Extremely accurate, extremely expensive. I don't know offhand if they've actually seen service widely, or are just a specialist weapon.
M1/M1A; you said you're familiar with it, 'nuff said
AK/Saiga; you said you're familiar with it, 'nuff said
FAL; probably at least as much fun as my FN49, just way too ugly and cheap looking . Used in the same places (later) as the FN49.
AG42; chambered in 6.5 Swede. This is the Swedish (original) version of the Hakim; a funky rifle with possibly the strangest operation ever deployed en masse. I can't describe it, you'll have to look it up on Youtube. Suffice it to say, this thing makes Garand Thumb look playful and benign. The 8mm Mauser Hakim was used by the Egyptians during their ill-fated wars with the Israelis. The action is functionally a direct-impingement version of the FAL.

I know I'm forgetting some, people, help me out here . I'm beat, can you tell I did some research before buying my FN49? I wouldn't expect any semi-auto .308 to clock in under 8 lbs unless it's missing stocks or barrel length. The AR 10 might, since it has a lot of polymer in its chassis, I believe.

Here's the FN49 in 30-06. I got a steal of a deal online for 600$ a couple months ago. Very comfortable stock on this one:


TCB

*thanks for the correction vaupet, I would guess that STG57 is considerably pricier than the AG42

 

[vaupet]

Nice list but for one correction,
the ag42 is swedidisch and fires 6,5x55.
The swiss equivalent, firing 7,5x55 is the StG57, wich has the dimension and looks of a machinegun
greetz
Peter

 

[johnnydollar]

That FN-49 is one fine looking fighting rifle.

 

[lovethosesooners]

Good list of options barnbwt-some I wasnt even familiar with before.

Regards the FNAR, I agree re. the servicing on a long trip, but regards the high round counts, it's tested to 10,000 rounds and is an area I would have zero concern about.

At 10,000+ rounds of durability, mine's going to out last me, my son, grandkids.....

 

[Rudedog]

I prefer the FAL over the M1A, just me. Although buy a spare "rat tail" for the FAL.
The gas regulator on the FAL can be tuned to any available .308/7.62mm and the price of mags is reasonable.

 

[jason41987]

i do really like the FAL in those photos posted earlier... seems they have a ton of aftermarket floating around for them... i need to become more familiar with the ergos and the interface... might not get the chance to shoot one until after i make my move halfway across the country... yay, ill finally have a cabelas..

anyway, seems the FAL does have a non reciprocating left side charger and does it contain a bolt hold open feature with a simple release?... magazines seem to be ak-esque... interesting... though, i dont know how i feel about a non-reciprocating charging handle or the fact that its on the left side so long as theres a simple bolt release that doesnt require you to mess with the charging handle after youre loaded

 

[boricua9mm]

Out of the old school rifles, I prefer the M1A. You can do some really cool things with them....

...but it gets real expensive real quick. As much as I like my M1A, I personally think the SCAR17 is the best modern interpretation of the battle rifle concept, and its price is not too far off base from a customized M1A. Other than the multi-lug bolt design, safety and magazine release locations, they actually have very little in common with an AR15.

 

[jason41987]

problem with the M1A is whenever you decide to do a cool think with it its about $250 just for the thought of doing it... a stock that would normally be a $150 stock on any other rifle is $600 on the M1A, its just rediculous what some people charge for aftermarket on these... enough to make me ignore this option entirely

 

[boricua9mm]

There is nothing cheap about owning and shooting a .308 semi!

 

[Fishbed77]

Here's an off-the-wall option that no one has mentioned... how about an M1 Garand chambered in .308? The CMP has them available for sale:

http://odcmp.com/Sales/m1garand.htm

The OP mentioned he has experience with Garands, though it doesn't exactly meet his requirement to have a vertical forward grip.

 

[X-Rap]

I have a M1A1 (had 2) and a 91 clone by Springfield, my next 308 will be an AR of some sort.
The AR shares some parts with my other AR's, get the configuration that takes the SR-25 mags, (the MagPuls cheap by comparison) it shares the MA I am most familiar with, and it seems to be one of the more accurate and easy to mount optics on.

 

[jason41987]

if i was going to rechamber a garand out of .30-06 id probably go for a .270

anyway.. seems ive been focusing more on the FAL and the saiga .308 side of things... both have bolt hold opens with a simple bolt release which is good, rock and lock mags which i prefer, a lot of aftermarket available, both .308

FAL has an adjustable gas system, but you can get one aftermarket for AK rifles as well (as if the saiga would need it) which is good for firing cheap ammo that may not want to cycle properly... saiga would have to be converted with a stock and pistol grip, new trigger group, but ive built AKs before so its nothing i havent already done

the AK im familiar with, like, trust, the FAL is capable of a full length top rail, the AK requires some modifications to do so, but in all im fine with the AKs options...

how about this decision... i get the saiga .308 now, its cheaper, im more familiar with the design on a more in depth level, and then, maybe after this winter i pick up a FAL as well... you know, so long as theyre still legal

 

[xsquidgator]

If you're leaning towards a Saiga, also then check out the VEPR 308 rifles. AK action made in Russia I think. AIM Surplus had them/has them for about $1k each. The magazines are probably proprietary.
Kind of looks like a wooden thumbhole-stocked Saiga, sort of, in a good way. I wouldn't mind having one even if I could get a decent number of the magazines that go with it. The mags probably don't grow on trees over here, but they look to be very nice rifles.

I have an M1A Socom16 and like it, but, I've had trouble with the used conventional M1A style scope mount I got not holding zero, and thus my M1A has been more difficult to scope than other rifles. These VEPRs I'd think would be easy to scope with an AK side receiver mount.

 

[elwoodm]

for the money the fal is worth it. moa capable mags are not cheap though plenty of parts for them the only draw back its hard on brass if you reload but what semi isnt. got all this done for less than a grand. now looking at some wood to dress it up.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

Based on your criteria, I'd think the FAL would be the best choice. Like mentioned, converting the M1A hurts in the $ department, even though I personally like the M1A out of the three you listed. I like Saigas, but find the FAL to be a little superior.

 

[jason41987]

i sometimes hunt in the state of new york, which i live very close to the border too.. so something like a FAL would be entirely illegal... a saiga however, is entirely legal, so i would be able to use the saiga rifle while hunting in that state, and after i move back to wisconsin i can convert the saiga to an AK configuration and pick up an FAL as well, or more likely build one from parts

 

[longshot7.62x51]

Buy what fits you needs/wants. I have 2 shooting buddy's that have m1a and FAL respectively and me with a ptr91f. Any time this subject comes up we end up spending alot of lead and money so here is my experience in a nut shell.
FAL: 2-4 moa with surplus ammo. 1.5-1 moa with hand loads
Some what hard on brass
Eats anything we run through it (adjustable gas setting is great)
Great ergonomics
Available parts aftermarket and surplus
Mags can be costly
M1A: same moa as above
Not horrible on brass
Has some trouble eating steel case after a long day of shooting
Ergonomics are not instinctiv but manual of arms is easy to learn
Parts are easy to come by and SA has great customer relations
Mags are bout the same as FAL
ptr: again about the same moa
Throws brass 15 meters but most is reloadable when you can find it
Eats anything
Bad ergonomics but again training can compensate
Parts are easy to find and cheap
Mags are cheap for now
I know the HK platform isn't what your looking for just threw in in there as a contrast. Im sorry to say my sagia experience is limited to the shotguns but the ak operating system is not known to be the best for accuracy but we are talking battle rifles so 2-4 moa is what you should expect with cheap/surplus ammo. There's my 2 cents and it probably isn't even worth that.