SwampWolf
Member
To my eyes it's a stunning rifle
To my eyes too. A beautiful rifle that kicks dirt in the eyes of boring black plastic stocks.
To my eyes it's a stunning rifle
I shoot a .35 Brown-Whelen -- which has more powder capacity than the Improved Whelen. I'm driving 225-grain Nosler Partition Jackets an honest 2800 fps. It's one hell of an elk rifle!This is getting a bit off the subject, but in discussions of the .35 Whelen I've been surprised and perhaps a bit disappointed that there is seldom any mention of the Improved Whelen. Which is actually a double improvement because it increases powder capacity and the sharper, better defined shoulder contour greatly reduces the headspace issues that plague some .35 Whelen rifles and ammo. It's an easy conversion and of course standard .35 Whelen ammo can be fired in improved chambers. This .35 Imp. Whelen was built on a 1909 Argentine Mauser action.View attachment 1136761 View attachment 1136762 View attachment 1136763
I'm in the process of building a 338-06 on a 700 action.The barrel is 19 inches long and it's going to weigh about 7 pounds ready to walk in the woods.I had a 35 Whelen a few years ago,but one of the local bear hunters fell in love with it and offered me a good sum of money for it.I'm thinking the 338 will be a nice woods rifle,especially with the short barrel.Of all the popular cartridges that are based on the 30-06,the only one I've not tried yet is the 6.5-06.Crazy thing is that I've never owned a 30-06,but I've owned a lot of its offspring.Of all of them,I like the 280AI the most.Bigger bores are more tolerant of barrel length and I'm all for shorter and lighter.The 270,280,280AI,25-06 and 6.5-06 are all great rounds,but they like longer barrels than the larger bore sizes.
Several years ago I was sore tempted to build a saddle carbine lever rifle based on a 99 Savage and chambered in .338 Federal.
Not quite as flat shooting as the Federal load but my Model 99 chambered in .358 Winchester is good for whitetails (and probably elk, though I have never shot one) out to 150 yards or so.
Something that is not addressed ever, is the realistic range of this cartridge, and probably also, the 338/06. I found my 200 gr round nose bullets tumbled past the 300 yard target at CMP Talladega. I don't recall trying the boat tailed 225 gr bullets at 600 yards, and I did not shoot 250's. They hurt too much. Anyone who thinks they are going to be whacking things at 500, 600, 700, 800 yards with a 35 Whelen or 338/06 needs to go out and shoot their loads at distance. They might be surprised to find their bullets are tumbling well before their long range dream. My 200 grain bullets would not group on the 600 yard targets. Many were not on the target. I have no idea when they were tumbling, but the 300 yard groups were round.
Might be a good idea to shoot on paper at 300 yards, and not assume the bullets will be stable at that distance till proven innocent. Three hundred yards is a long way, lots of trees and underbrush, even out West.
I did determine the cartridge likes faster powders over slower. Powders in the range of IMR 3031 to IMR 4064 did best.
Something that is not addressed ever, is the realistic range of this cartridge, and probably also, the 338/06. I found my 200 gr round nose bullets tumbled past the 300 yard target at CMP Talladega. I don't recall trying the boat tailed 225 gr bullets at 600 yards, and I did not shoot 250's. They hurt too much. Anyone who thinks they are going to be whacking things at 500, 600, 700, 800 yards with a 35 Whelen or 338/06 needs to go out and shoot their loads at distance. They might be surprised to find their bullets are tumbling well before their long range dream. My 200 grain bullets would not group on the 600 yard targets. Many were not on the target. I have no idea when they were tumbling, but the 300 yard groups were round. Might be a good idea to shoot on paper at 300 yards, and not assume the bullets will be stable at that distance till proven innocent. .
I also agree with what Slamfire says about shooting long distance with a 35 Whelen or a 338-06, and the same thing can be said about a 30-06. The first thing I do when I walk up to a 200 yard or 300 yard target is to look and see if the holes are perfectly round. I have never seen any sign of bullets starting to tumble in my 338-06 rifles but my longest target distance is 300 yards.
I wanted a Whelen from back in my College days. The College Library had original bound volumes of the American Rifleman, so I was able to read the original 1920's articles by Townsend Whelen on the 35 Whelen and 400 Whelen cartridges. And then I had Elmer Keith's book :Big Game Guns and Cartridges. Elmer praised the 35 and 400 Whelen cartridges.
I have only hit paper with mine, but I have learned a couple of things.
Headspacing is critical with the 35 Whelen in three of my rifles. The 35 Whelen has a shallow shoulder and that cushions the firing pin blow. I went to sizing cases to exactly chamber headspace and to using Federal primers, which are the most sensitive primers, when I reloaded 35 Whelen cartridges. For my Mauser, I found a firing pin with greater protrusion. And in everything old, I installed new mainsprings. I think the sharper shoulder versions of the cartridge will probably have more reliable ignition, especially in cold weather.Don't know why, but my Rem 700 never had an ignition issue.
The 35 Whelen kicks like a mule off the bench! I removed this big scope as the bell kept on smacking me right in the eye.
View attachment 1136839
The mount and bell clearance would not allow me to move the rings further forward, so I found a smaller scope that went about a half inch further forward. This is a lightweight rifle and it really kicks with 225 and 250 grain bullets. It is painful! I don't know why anyone wants to shoot the same bullets faster as flinches do not improve grouping ability.
My Mauser, I made sure I had 14 inches of trigger pull, to get away from that scope, and I added a heavier barrel. While it is not a "pleasant" rifle to shoot, it is not as painful as my Ruger #1, or my custom M1903.
View attachment 1136840
The Custom M1903 was built for a much shorter shooter (the 86 year old ex Gun Club President)
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and has a pencil thin barrel, and kicks like a mule! I think the 1:10 barrel adds to the recoil.
Something that is not addressed ever, is the realistic range of this cartridge, and probably also, the 338/06. I found my 200 gr round nose bullets tumbled past the 300 yard target at CMP Talladega. I don't recall trying the boat tailed 225 gr bullets at 600 yards, and I did not shoot 250's. They hurt too much. Anyone who thinks they are going to be whacking things at 500, 600, 700, 800 yards with a 35 Whelen or 338/06 needs to go out and shoot their loads at distance. They might be surprised to find their bullets are tumbling well before their long range dream. My 200 grain bullets would not group on the 600 yard targets. Many were not on the target. I have no idea when they were tumbling, but the 300 yard groups were round.
Might be a good idea to shoot on paper at 300 yards, and not assume the bullets will be stable at that distance till proven innocent. Three hundred yards is a long way, lots of trees and underbrush, even out West.
I did determine the cartridge likes faster powders over slower. Powders in the range of IMR 3031 to IMR 4064 did best.
I started out using two different 350 Rem. mags., a Rem. 600 or 660 and a Ruger 77, I liked the .338-06 much better for bigger big game and have stuck with it.
My first .336-06 was a Ruger 77/30-06 that I had PO Ackley rebore, that rifle was very accurate, too bad the bolt was on the wrong side! lol
DM
If a .338 or .35 are no better than an `06, then why not a .270 or .280? Why n ot a 6.5 or .257? Where does it end? Sorry but after 35yrs of hunting with handguns, this idea that diameter and mass don't matter just ain't gonna fly. Diameter and mass count for more than velocity ever did.Your 30-06 loaded with 200-220 gr bullets will outperform either, at least until you get to 275 gr bullets in the 35 Whelen. I've had both, the only thing they do that a 30-06 won't do is kick you a lot harder. Once I figured that out, I sold both.
Okay, so let me get this straight. A .35 is no better than a .30 but a .36 gets you all the way to elephant? The logic here, ain't. Oh, I forgot, this is from the same person that says the .45/70 is less effective than the .30-30.If I absolutely had to do something different, and go bigger, I'd go with 9.3X62. Now you're shooting bullets heavy enough to show some advantages over 30-06 on bigger game. It is simply 30-06 necked up to 36 caliber, same bolt face. You're probably more likely to find factory loads for 9.3X62. That is a relatively popular cartridge in Africa and is legal for elephant in some countries.
How much of a problem is the slight shoulder on the 35 Whelen? That shoulder angle is the same as the shoulder angle on 30-06, with which I have never had nor heard of folks having headspacing issues due to the shoulder angle
If I decide to go with an "improved" chambering, why go to the Brown-Whelen instead of the AI?
First question: How much of a problem is the slight shoulder on the 35 Whelen? That shoulder angle is the same as the shoulder angle on 30-06, with which I have never had nor heard of folks having headspacing issues due to the shoulder angle. Why does it present a problem for the 35? Is it simply because the shoulder is shorter due to the bullet being larger diameter? I'll admit that doesn't make sense to me since the angle is still the same. Please educate me on this.