357 Magnum has become pointless... for me.

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FWIW I miss my 629 4 and 6 inchers.
I do not miss my Colt Python.
And detested my Security Six.
Passed on a Model 28 at a good price......if going N frame, go .44 mag IMHO
 
MaxP said:
Well the sweeping statement was made that the .357 has taken every animal in North America and that is what both Craig and I responded to.
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I have to agree with that. The 357 mag is a pistol cartridge. It wasn't designed as a hunting cartridge. People use pistol cartridges for all kinds of weird stuff. They even hunt elk with them. I shoot rats with my 357 mag loaded with #7 bird shot. Rats to deer. Very versatile. :D
 
CoalTrain49 said:
I have to agree with that. The 357 mag is a pistol cartridge. It wasn't designed as a hunting cartridge. People use pistol cartridges for all kinds of weird stuff. They even hunt elk with them. I shoot rats with my 357 mag loaded with #7 bird shot. Rats to deer. Very versatile. :D
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I hunt virtually everything with handguns but much more capable calibers - more capable and thereby vastly more versatile.
 
I'm no .357 lover.............but I'd take one again to shoot deer to 50 yards.
Heck, I might use my dad's .256 win Contender bbl.
 
CraigC said:
Okay, so it is very capable of going "bang" and sending a bullet downrange. If that is the extent of your needs, then it is fully sufficient. As is the .22LR.
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Well, thank you for mentioning the 22LR. It too is also a very versatile cartridge but we won't go there.
 
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Arthritis sucks. .44 mag and me don't get along like we used to.
.35 rem in Super 14 lights me up.
Sold it.
.357 may be the choice for old wimps like me.
Looked online for a Contender bbl.

FWIW when I shot my one and only deer with .357 mag (Python)....it felt like a cap gun LOL. So used to hot .44 mag loads over the years.

"pop" and the deer went down (spined on purpose). Too funny.
I'd like to double lung one w .357 and see how that does.
 
Varminterror said:
At this point, I've lost interest in your misconceptions of basic science. The rest of your post is largely accurate, but then you take this erroneous left turn at Albuquerque, and I just can't be made to care any longer. No matter how far you misconstrue principles of physics you've cited above, you're still not understanding the most basic principles of collisions - because you're walking RIGHT UP TO THE EDGE, and then turning away.

The momentum is conserved, whether you are capable of understanding the mechanism or not - the resulting momentum of the target allows you to back calculate, exactly as you described, the change in kinetic energy. Momentum and kinetic energy are both built out of nothing more than mass and velocity, so it is true, you can't have one without the other, but in no way does that mean both are conserved in all collisions. You've described yourself all of the mechanisms in which kinetic energy is NOT efficiently transferred to a target during an impact, but then turn around and cite them as reasons the collisions aren't inelastic - in other words, you're describing how and why bullet-target collisions are inelastic, then claiming they are not. You can't explain why the sky is blue, then claim that as evidence the sky is actually red. Your left hand turn into work and now speaking in terms of "currency" is a fun diversion, but again, you're misapplying simple science. Yes, work is the measure of energy transfer - so effectively, the conservation of momentum tells us the beginning and end state kinetic energies, telling us the resulting work done - kinetic energy transferred - which leaves a net offset, the sum total of energy which was not transferred from the bullet to the target, but rather "lost" as heat, sound, deformation, etc.
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When did I say that a bullets collision with a target is not inelastic? I don't think I did but If so it was a typo/mistake. A bullet's collision with a target is usually very inellastic, a bullet that fails to exit the target is a perfectly inelastic collision.

Please explain where you think I turn at the "edge"? We are in agreement that momentum in conserved. I think we are in agreement that the change in kinetic energy before and after the collision goes else where (damage to tissue, damage to the bullet, heat, sound etc)? The amount of damage, deformation, heat, sound etc is capped by how much kinetic energy the bullet brings to the collision. There are no other energy sources available to power these effects.
 
MaxP said:
I hunt virtually everything with handguns but much more capable calibers - more capable and thereby vastly more versatile.
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I certainly hope so. I wouldn't hunt with a 357. I've had my share of them, including a rifle. Loaded them every which way except upside down.:D
 
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Obturation said:
Not really, what is the 327 fed magnum then? How about the lesser calibers that evolved into it, those seem a bit gangly.
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They seem gangly, because they are. And they are about the polar opposite of the word "versatile".

Expanding upon my claim the 357mag is a gangly kicker among a pro football team of more powerful magnums, then the 327 Federal Magnum, and further the 32 H&R Magnum which came before it, are the players who fell out in high school and never even made it to walk-on try outs at a D1 college, let alone draft day. Maybe they were those kids who were All-League on a small town team, who went to a community college and blew out their knee, moved back home and became a manager at a womens' shoe store, maybe that guy who loves to go down to the local bar in his small town and have a few beers with his old high school chronies and retell the story about how when he scored 4 touchdowns against Andrew Johnson High school for the 1966 City Championships... (anybody?) This of course would be to say the 40 S&W is nothing more than a water boy, and a 380acp is the nerd playing clarinet in the marching band at halftime...

The 32 magnums are among my favorite cartridges of all time, but not for their versatility. They've fast, and they're fantastic bunny guns, but there's no real versatility in their capabilities for practical application. The 327FM gets touted as highly versatile because it can swallow a handful of other cartridges, but none actually change its capacity. Whether it's 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R, or 327FM, it's just a bunny gun. None of these increases make a bunny gun into an efficient deer hunter, let alone anything larger. On my properties, I can venture out with a 22mag, 17HMR, or 32 cal revolver on an afternoon horseback ride, footed hike, or four wheeler trek, and any day of the year, I can hunt bunnies, packrats, or squirrels with 365 days/yr season, and draw immense pleasure from it. But that doesn't make it versatile.

If you intended to twist my words to prove versatility for the 357mag by claiming such for the 327FM, I'm sorry to let you down. The word "Magnum" doesn't equate to "versatility," and a 327FM is hardly more "versatile" than a 22Mag, which is hardly more versatile than a 22LR for in-field applications. The gap between the 327FM and the 357mag in terms of efficacy for deer and hog sized game is SMALL - and the 9mm Luger and 40 S&W are very close in this hunt, in my personal experience taking game with all of the above. The concessions required are significant. Stepping up to even 41magnum removes all of these ties.

I've also seen the lies about flatter trajectory in the 357mag, even recounted here... A 158 at 1500fps doesn't fly any flatter than a 240 at 1500fps - objectively, the 240 will have the same or likely better BC. For example, the 158 XTP is a .199G1, with the 240 XTP a .205G1 - it doesn't take a degree in physics to understand a the same or better aerodynamics with the same speed will fly as flat or flatter. Push the bullet out to the end of a Ruger Cylinder and I can even comfortably get a 300 XTP over 1400 fps, with a .245G1... Of course, none of it matters terribly much for the 0-100yrd shooting most guys take on with a revolver, so I'm never quite sure why the flatter trajectory ever comes up, but guys sure love to kick it around online like it mattered - even if it were real...
 
and the 9mm Luger and 40 S&W are very close in this hunt, in my personal experience taking game with all of the above.
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Sounds like you've done just about everything worthwhile there is to do.

You're a great asset to this forum.
 
The .445SuperMag is the single most "versatile" cartridge known to mankind. It can digest .44Russian, .44Colt, .44Spl, .44Mag, .44AutoMag (w/moon clips) and .445SuperMag. Forget that half those cartridges are obsolete and the guns were three feet long and weighed 4lbs. :p

I never understood the concept that the ability to digest multiple cartridges equals "versatility".
 
Varminterror said:
They seem gangly, because they are. And they are about the polar opposite of the word "versatile".

Expanding upon my claim the 357mag is a gangly kicker among a pro football team of more powerful magnums, then the 327 Federal Magnum, and further the 32 H&R Magnum which came before it, are the players who fell out in high school and never even made it to walk-on try outs at a D1 college, let alone draft day. Maybe they were those kids who were All-League on a small town team, who went to a community college and blew out their knee, moved back home and became a manager at a womens' shoe store, maybe that guy who loves to go down to the local bar in his small town and have a few beers with his old high school chronies and retell the story about how when he scored 4 touchdowns against Andrew Johnson High school for the 1966 City Championships... (anybody?) This of course would be to say the 40 S&W is nothing more than a water boy, and a 380acp is the nerd playing clarinet in the marching band at halftime...

The 32 magnums are among my favorite cartridges of all time, but not for their versatility. They've fast, and they're fantastic bunny guns, but there's no real versatility in their capabilities for practical application. The 327FM gets touted as highly versatile because it can swallow a handful of other cartridges, but none actually change its capacity. Whether it's 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R, or 327FM, it's just a bunny gun. None of these increases make a bunny gun into an efficient deer hunter, let alone anything larger. On my properties, I can venture out with a 22mag, 17HMR, or 32 cal revolver on an afternoon horseback ride, footed hike, or four wheeler trek, and any day of the year, I can hunt bunnies, packrats, or squirrels with 365 days/yr season, and draw immense pleasure from it. But that doesn't make it versatile.

If you intended to twist my words to prove versatility for the 357mag by claiming such for the 327FM, I'm sorry to let you down. The word "Magnum" doesn't equate to "versatility," and a 327FM is hardly more "versatile" than a 22Mag, which is hardly more versatile than a 22LR for in-field applications. The gap between the 327FM and the 357mag in terms of efficacy for deer and hog sized game is SMALL - and the 9mm Luger and 40 S&W are very close in this hunt, in my personal experience taking game with all of the above. The concessions required are significant. Stepping up to even 41magnum removes all of these ties.

I've also seen the lies about flatter trajectory in the 357mag, even recounted here... A 158 at 1500fps doesn't fly any flatter than a 240 at 1500fps - objectively, the 240 will have the same or likely better BC. For example, the 158 XTP is a .199G1, with the 240 XTP a .205G1 - it doesn't take a degree in physics to understand a the same or better aerodynamics with the same speed will fly as flat or flatter. Push the bullet out to the end of a Ruger Cylinder and I can even comfortably get a 300 XTP over 1400 fps, with a .245G1... Of course, none of it matters terribly much for the 0-100yrd shooting most guys take on with a revolver, so I'm never quite sure why the flatter trajectory ever comes up, but guys sure love to kick it around online like it mattered - even if it were real...
Click to expand...

Right. And that 1500 fps load is so much louder and more uncomfortable to shoot when it is a 158 grainer from a m28 than it is with a 240 grain bullet sent from a m29. Also I love being able to not only take game with my .44 mag, but to carry my .44 magnum in a lighter k frame while hiking, and pocketing it in my .44 mag LCR when going in to town, versatility for sure.
 
Pudge said:
Also I love being able to not only take game with my .44 mag, but to carry my .44 magnum in a lighter k frame while hiking, and pocketing it in my .44 mag LCR when going in to town, versatility for sure.
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Im sorry, but can you clarify?
 
Yes, I'm sorry that was absolutely sarcasm. You just don't get that kind of flexibility with the .44 magnum. But perhaps there is a round that is flexible enough to fill all those roles.
 
Walkalong said:
No matter what you think about .357 Magnum as a caliber, there are way too many cool .357 Mag revolvers out there not to own one or two.
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The more I shoot larger bore revolvers the more I like them better than 38/357. But I agree some of the coolest revolvers are chambered in 357. I’ll always own some and am sure I’ll buy more. But I’m shooting them less and less.
 
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"Flexible..."

"Versatile..."

For these to apply, I really feel like there should be an easy list of applications the cartridge can successfully accomplish... Still waiting for a list of things the 357mag is actually good for...

Guys seem to get bent out of shape when someone calls out their favorite range and defensive cartridge, but that's really all it does well - two legged critters. The .357mag can be great for the one thing it does well, and that's fine, but it doesn't make it versatile, or flexible.
 
Whether we argue 357 mag is or is not versatile the problem is that it's never optimal for my uses. I am not constrained to just one revolver so I do not need versatility. For example what makes an excellent USPSA revolver does not also make an excellent hunting revolver. Sure I could do both with 357 Mag, but it would be less than optimal for either application. Hence the reason I find 357 mag pointless for the application I use a revolver for. No doubt others find it optimal or at least acceptable for what they use it for.
 
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