357 maximum vs 350 legend

[Varminterror]

the Legend blows the 357 magnum away. Not the 357 Maximum. They are similar but the slight power edge goes to the Max

Defend the above statement, proving the Max has more power than the Legend. Let’s use your other assertion of a 180 at 2660fps as the benchmark. Show me your chrony data with a 357 Max pushing a 180 over 2660fps...

My Bro in law is loading a 180 grain Legend boolit that does 2660 average.

 

[rodinal220]

What is it with Winchester and odd specs. They tried this with the 351 WSL and not a standard .357. At least its easier to squeeze a .357 bullet down a .355 hole than a .358 down a .351.

 

[LoonWulf]

i said slightly. Insignificant. Very similar.And every “new” caliber runs at mid level to start out. The entire industry needs to keep up. That was learned by the Max. It was burning the top straps out on handguns like the Ruger. Winchester is holding the throttle back. If one AR blows up, it could stop the whole thing. They know it. My Bro in law is loading a 180 grain Legend boolit that does 2660 average. I would never load that way until we all know what this Legend can do. He told me no flattened primers, no craters, and none of the Starline brass has stressed at all. This is an advantage of a straight walled cartridge. I don’t need to go back to the books lol. They are only beginning to be written. The factory ammo is always under potential. The lawyers make sure of that. Then Underwood, Buffalo Bore and Double Tap take it to it’s ++ Sami specs where it reaches close to its limits. They have no secret magic. Just add propellant. No the books are not written yet. Thats what is interesting about new calibers like the 350 Legend. Remember the Grendel. It is mow reaching it’s potential that can only be reached by hand loading. But you won’t see those on the market.

Id love to see the data for that. My loads a pretty hot with a 147 at 2350 from my 16" AR, much more and i start seeing swipes. A bolt gun can probably get away with more than what Im getting, but i havent worked with one yet.
The winchester factory 180s clocked 2100 or so for me if i remember correctly, 550fps difference is a lot.

 

[Larry Poho]

Reading comprehension and internal ballistics seem to be a bit of a challenge for you.

internal Balistics....LMAO. You spend way too much time reading internet articles. Gathering info to impress. NOTT workin

As a 357 maximum owner I can tell you your not missing out on anything with this bore size nonsense. There isn’t a single .357 bullet in production that is actually suitable for the impact velocities you can achieve with a 350 legend. Not a single one. The closest one will probably be the 180 xtp which is popular in 357 max. This is what happens when you push that bullet to 1990 fps muzzle velocity. The one on the left was shot into water jugs at 20 feet, the two on the right at 100 yards. Still over expanding at 100 yards. This is already downloaded. My 13" 357 max will push them 2200 fps if you really push the pedal.

View attachment 882142

Now sure if you are just plinking or shooting varmints or something then go ahead and use handgun bullets, but this is really only a benefit if you happen to have a pile of revolver bullets.

The story is not a whole lot better on the .358 side of things. Have you looked at what is actually available in .358 bullets and what the prices are? Almost all .358 bullets are $40 per 100 or more. You really want that??? Plus most of them are too heavy for the 350 legends small case size. 180 is ideal, 200 is starting to push it. Most of them are also too hard to expand decently at the velocities your going to push with this cartridge. The one and only bullet in .358 that is actually appealing at all is the 180 grain speer hot core. Your going to want to push it at least 2200 fps to make sure it will still expand to 200 yards but it would work.

So where are all these bullets that people are just dying to load in there 357 AR Max that they never bought or cared about? What do you think your missing out on? Why can't you buy one of the bullets on sale now that was actually made for the 350 legend? Please explain it to me.[/QUOTE this might help

 

[Larry Poho]

this might help.

 

[Larry Poho]

Id love to see the data for that. My loads a pretty hot with a 147 at 2350 from my 16" AR, much more and i start seeing swipes. A bolt gun can probably get away with more than what Im getting, but i havent worked with one yet.
The winchester factory 180s clocked 2100 or so for me if i remember correctly, 550fps difference is a lot.

ok, Sorry for not getting back. Here are our loads and data. There are pretty much max. I do nor recommend these in any way i was wrong on the 180 at 2600. He is working on a load that i wont share the data on . It is for the Hornady 170 gr using IMR 4227 that I wont give out. . He is getting closer to 2300. out of a 24 inch bolt in a rifle that he had reamed and re chambered in 350 Legend rather than buy a new rifle. He is going to shorten the barrel later. The 2660 was a 125 gr cast load that he is using 27.5 gr LiL Gun. Next we are doing a load that is getting a bit over 2500 fps using a 147 gr boolit and 28.2 gr H110. (These are max). 147 gr boolit with 28.5 gr Lil Gun. next is a 180 gr boolit using 25.5 gr Lil gun Velocity is 2248. We were talking about several loads at the same time and i mixed this one up with the 2660 fps. VOID that last velocity. Now here is a great load for my 9.5 inch barrel. He is getting2100 fps using Lil Gun with a 200 gr jacket boolit. It is inconsistently showing signs of over pressure. possibly over the 55,000 range. Are you using a long tight crimp? we are thinking the crimp has a lot to do with pressure. we loosened it up and back, and are seeing safer signs. Remember. I DO NOT RECOMEND This data. He is using a strong chamber in a high end bolt rifle built for magnum loads. I am using a 9.5 inch AR 15 setup. I back off his bolt rifle loads for my AR. Now the way we do it is find a limit and back off. Then we go to the range and drop powder till we find an accurate formula. We are also trying slower powders instead of 44 magnum powders. I will check back with the results.

 

[LoonWulf]

If I'm remembering correctly that about how much h100 I'm running behind my 147xtps.
I'm using just enough crimp to remove the flair from the case mouths completely.

 

[Larry Poho]

oK just inspect and keep an eye on the crimp. Forgot to say we are using Starline brass mostly. The first batch of winchester loads seemed to have stiffer or thicker brass. Have you noticed that? I bought a bag of 200 once fired 350 brass and the Federal is good and most Winchester. But the old first run Winchester sometimes is thrown in the smelter. I have also had bad Winchester inconsistent load OAL differing by a large margin. Hornady stuff has been good. I only paid $9.00 a box for 147 gr Winchester but I’d like to be able to reload the brass. I have heard that winchester has upped their game quite a bit now. Been to Hawaii several times and love it. It is truly paradise and the people are wonderful. once again apologies for the mixup in that data. I have a few hundred loads and data figures floating around in my head. From a 22-250 to a 6.5 Creedmoor. Also just got a new Mach2 rifle. What a blast. Minute of squerrill head. What a blast. Best squerrill gun ever. The Mach2 is making a comeback.

 

[LoonWulf]

oK just inspect and keep an eye on the crimp. Forgot to say we are using Starline brass mostly. The first batch of winchester loads seemed to have stiffer or thicker brass. Have you noticed that? I bought a bag of 200 once fired 350 brass and the Federal is good and most Winchester. But the old first run Winchester sometimes is thrown in the smelter. I have also had bad Winchester inconsistent load OAL differing by a large margin. Hornady stuff has been good. I only paid $9.00 a box for 147 gr Winchester but I’d like to be able to reload the brass. I have heard that winchester has upped their game quite a bit now. Been to Hawaii several times and love it. It is truly paradise and the people are wonderful.

Hrrmmmm, I am using all Winchester.
Overly thick brass could be a reason my gun won't just barely won't chamber .358s comfortably.
I've also seen the inconsistent case length. I trimmed all of mine .01 shorter than min to get them all the same length.
I'll order some starlings and see how it does.

 

[someguy2800]

this might help.

I have seen them but at $33/50 bullets I’m afraid I’m not interested. Kind of goes to my point about .358 bullets being quite expensive to the point that I don’t understand why someone would want a .358 legend.

 

[LoonWulf]

I have seen them but at $33/50 bullets I’m afraid I’m not interested. Kind of goes to my point about .358 bullets being quite expensive to the point that I don’t understand why someone would want a .358 legend.

Id like to try the 200gr accubonds in mine, but realistically I dont see a huge advantage with the majors beginning to offer options for the 350.

 

[someguy2800]

Id like to try the 200gr accubonds in mine, but realistically I dont see a huge advantage with the majors beginning to offer options for the 350.

What rifle do you have again? I wonder if the accubonds would fit in the mags. I know my yeti they say the accubonds won’t fit unless you snip the tip off.

 

[LoonWulf]

What rifle do you have again? I wonder if the accubonds would fit in the mags. I know my yeti they say the accubonds won’t fit unless you snip the tip off.

AR, and im not sure they WOULD fit, but ive got quite a bit of space in front of my current loadings. The 225 spirepoints i stuck in there fit just fine when seated out a bit. Could always notch the front of the mag so the points can stick thru if its close....BUUUUT I still need to see if i can GET .358s to chamber in my gun.

 

[Larry Poho]

Itls on Page three in this thread. It;s actually a pistol length AR15

What rifle do you have again? I wonder if the accubonds would fit in the mags. I know my yeti they say the accubonds won’t fit unless you snip the tip off.

 

[someguy2800]

AR, and im not sure they WOULD fit, but ive got quite a bit of space in front of my current loadings. The 225 spirepoints i stuck in there fit just fine when seated out a bit. Could always notch the front of the mag so the points can stick thru if its close....BUUUUT I still need to see if i can GET .358s to chamber in my gun.

Do you know if it’s the throat or the neck? If it’s the necks you could ream them or turn the necks.

 

[LoonWulf]

Do you know if it’s the throat or the neck? If it’s the necks you could ream them or turn the necks.

Neck, or at least I assume, if I push them in by hand there's no resistance till they hit the lands.
They WILL chamber, but i have to mortar them out.
I don't have a neck turning tool, otherwise I'd try it. I want to try the starlings brass anyway tho, and if I CAN shoot .357-.358s with it great if not I'm happy with the available .355s.

 

[Larry Poho]

Watch the video above. This guy is very much right on. We have learned a few things from him. He isn’t the typical AH butt head. Very good video to watch

 

[Larry Poho]

Shooting the AR today or tomorrow. Hoping to get some chrono data if it’s not too busy at the range.

 

[Larry Poho]

Balistics by the inch 350 Legend inch by inch. watch

 

[Eagle 17]

Ok guys in my mind two very similar cartridges so in your eyes who wins this

A) 357 maximum

B) 350 legend


Why did you pick A)/B)?

I'm going with the 38 Spc./357 Mag./357 Max. for me it's a no brainer, I already have a 38 Spc./357 Mag. Revolver so for $400-$500 I can get a Rifle that I can ream for the 357 Max. and I will end up with three cartridges that I can reload and enjoy shooting.

 

[ewetho]

@Larry Poho - can you explain data to support your opinion that the Max is more powerful than the Legend?

Supporting that a 40,000psi cartridge with a case capacity of 34grn H2O will our power a 55,000psi cartridge with a capacity of 36.5grn H2O...

Think you need to go back to the books. If you’re outrunning a Legend with a Max, you’re either WAY over pressure in the Max, or you’re running starting loads in the Legend.

With an Encore you can push 357 Max to 60,000 psi and the brass just falls out. And loading long gets us back case volume lost. Yeah purpose built bullets from Hawk or Fury for hunting can be expensive but you can taget shoot with others.

 

[Steve E]

My vote is for the 357 Maxi, I have had one for many many years. I have an Encore pistol barrel, Encore rifle barrel, Savage 24V, Henry Single Shot rifle all in the Maxi. I like AR's a lot, I have about twelve in various calibers and wouldn't be above building another if a killer deal on a barrel comes along.

Steve.........

 

[Skylerbone]

I chose Legend for factory ammo. After a very long sabbatical from loaded ammunition the 6.5s I purchased a few years back forced my hand when I could not find the dies I wanted so I stocked up. Now I realize that with time constraints and as many calibers as I’m loading for I just don’t feel volume wise that either will really be worth it, particularly the Legend. If factory loads provide 2 MOA my youngsters can kill deer.

For me, this is a one-off, check it at the range then hunt with it rifle for the kids at least at present. No real interest in an AR upper but I never say never since every kid should have their own AR by next year. I’ve got another 5-6 month wait to find out though unless E A Brown pushes up the timeline on my Pro Hunter barrel.

 

[Aim1]

I've interest in the.350 Legend for my kids if they make it legal for shotgun zones in MN.

 

[someguy2800]

I've interest in the.350 Legend for my kids if they make it legal for shotgun zones in MN.

I have not heard about anything about them allowing straight wall cartridges in MN shotgun zones, but there is a loophole already that you can legally use.

In the MN hunting handbook it says that you can use a shotgun, muzzleloader, or handgun in the shotgun zone. That means if you get an AR15 pistol in 350 legend or any other caliber, it is legally a handgun and you can use it in the shotgun zone. If your not familiar with AR15 pistols all you need is a 350 legend with a barrel shorter than 16" and a pistol brace on the buffer tube as shown below and it is legally a handgun, not a rifle. The ATF considers this a pistol brace, not a buttstock because the rear face of it is not flat. Pair that with a 10 round magazine and you would have a perfect youth deer gun.