.38 / .357 trajectory question

[birddog]

Good morning THR.

I recently picked up an 8-inch Dan Wesson .357. I'd lusted after if for months in the gun store window and finally, after failing to rationalize *any* need for it, just bought it.

When I first took it to the range, I had a bunch of target load .38 specials. It seemed to be hitting about 16 inches low at 35 yards (from a rest). When I adjusted the rear ramp, the shots bore right in the ten ring, or thereabouts. I've used CCI, Winchester White Box, and PMC .38 special ammo, and all hits about the same place.

Now, since I've so enjoyed shooting this gun, I've thought about using it for hunting. I know I know, there are better calibers for hunting and yes, I already own 2 .44 mags.

So yesterday at the range I tried some CCI .357 and some very hot Corbon ammo and must say I was disappointed in the results. At 35 yards, I couldn't tell where I was hitting, so I switched to a larger target and, though my ammo supply was low, discovered I was hitting high, anywhere from 8-14 inches. By then my groups were all over the place so it was difficult to tell.

Finally, to the question. Could it be that the previous owner had the gun sighted for .357 and that's why I initially hit high and adjusted the POI down, and now I am sighted for .38's?

In your experience at the relatively close yardage I was shooting at, should there be much of a difference between 38 and 357?

Thanks for any input you folks have.

Joel

 

[birddog]

The gun in question

Dan Wesson 15-2. From Monson, Mass.

 

[rjk2475]

generally, if you sight your gun with 38's, the .357 loads will shoot low. at higher velocities, they are out the bore before being affected by bbl rise due to recoil.

 

[Plinkerton]

In general though, the heavier bullet .357's should shoot higher than the .38's. This seems to conflict what rjk2475 said, but I have heard from numerous people that .357's should shoot higher. It definitely does in my gun, though not as much as yours. Maybe a few inches.

 

[HSMITH]

At 25 yards my 357's shoot within 4 inches center to center of the groups when very light 38's and VERY heavy 357's are used. I could understand a 6" difference if extremely light grip pressure was used, but a foot and a half is not something I can explain.

 

[stans]

That is a sweet looking DW! I noticed you have the rear sight adjusted pretty much to the top of its elevation potential. The 15-2 I had many years ago displayed a tendency to shoot really low with the 8 inch barrel and I had to adjust the rear sight to the top of its travel, but with a 6 inch barrel the rear sight was pretty much centered in elevation. I ended up filing down the front sight and made a home brewed Patridge style front sight for the 8 inch barrel. It worked well, the point of impact change became very slight when switching barrels.

Since you experienced really high impact points and poor accuracy with the magnum loads, it could be your shooting technique. If you are holding the gun lightly and it is really recoiling with the magnum ammo, it is possible that the muzzle is already rising before the bullet has exited. This is less of a problem with short barrels, but long barrels can show such tendencies. At least that has been my experience.

If the recoil of that DW is a bit too much for your tastes, start looking for a set of Pachmayer Presentation rubber stocks. I had the walnut DW, small size Presentation and large size Presentation stocks for my DW. My favorites were the large size Pachmayer Presentation stocks.

 

[birddog]

Thanks for the info and the replies.

Stans, no I don't mind the recoil of the revolver, even with the Corbon loads. I'm used to stout recoil in my 6 inch Taurus 44 mag, and my 4 inch S&W 629 .44 mag. Recoil / muzzle flip really isn't an issue for me, never has been. I was into deer rifles and 12 gauge slug guns before diving headlong into the world of handguns, so recoil is something that rarely bothers me.

However, it could be shooting style, as you suggested. I'm going to head to the range tomorrow with some standard velocity 38's and 357's and see what happens.

I really enjoy plinking with the 38's in this gun and don't want to have to drastically change the rear sight when shooting 357's. Hopefully it's just a matter of form.

Thanks again to all who replied.

Joel

 

[49hudson]

shooting a handgun

In your post you mention you were shooting low, from a rest.
If you had the butt resting on something,you will always shoot low. The butt has to be free to let the gun recoil upward.
Try shooting from a rest again but don't let the butt of the grip rest on anything.

 

[JohnKSa]

Yes, the difference between a 700-800fps load and a 1200-1500fps load out of the same revolver will be significant at 35 yards.

16" sounds like a bit much, but then the longer the barrel, the more difference you're going to see.

 

[birddog]

If you had the butt resting on something,you will always shoot low. The butt has to be free to let the gun recoil upward.

The butt wasn't rested on anything. I was using a Stony Point shooting stick, with only the barrel resting in the crook of the stick. From past experience this doesn't affect POI from freehand shooting. In fact the shooting stick often falls to the ground as the gun flips upward, unless I consciously hold on to it.

 

[Old Fuff]

One time I was involved in a test where two revolvers were fixed in a Ransom machine rest and a full range of .38 Special and .357 Magnum cartridges were fired at a target 50 yards distant.

Both revolvers were S&W model 19's. One with a 4 inch barrel, the other with a 2 1/2 inch.

Bullet weights ranged from 95 grains to 160 grain.

The extreem spread, high to low, from all of the different rounds was about 36 inches.

Bullet weight, velocity and barrel length does make a difference.

 

[birddog]

Range Report

generally, if you sight your gun with 38's, the .357 loads will shoot low. at higher velocities, they are out the bore before being affected by bbl rise due to recoil.

Rjk2475 had it right.

I wanted a baseline of two similar .38 / .357 loads, so today I picked up a box each PMC, both 158 grain.

Both freehand and carefully shooting off my rest (barrel only on the rest), the .38's hit the center of the ten ring at 35 yards, and the .357's hit anywhere from 3-5 inches low with the same POA.

I found that if I covered the center of the target with the front sight, the .357's were right in there and if I aimed "traditionally", the 38's were right on.

I'm willing to bet that those "fliers" I had with the Corbon ammo were just flukes, and may very well have been low as well, not high. As I said, I just didn't have much of that ammo to try and my target was pretty well chewed up by then.

In short, if I want to keep plinking with 38's, I leave the gun sighted where it is. If I decide to hunt with it, I'll either change the sight before hunting season, or consciously cover the target with the front sight.

Thanks for all your replies.

Joel